Condo Special Assessments

[killer_carlson]

im a condo lawyer. Sadly ive been through this many times.

BC law is different from Alberta, and generally the bylaws vest the power to assess with the Board


1. Ask your board to hold an info meeting
2. Talk to your bank
3. Try calling the Condo Cash Program. They have options for condo corps to borrow
4. If you and some neighbors want to hire a lawyer for specific analysis and advice, PM me.


In all seriousness, enough of you in want me to do a condo info session about condos in general, I can come to Calgary and do a session. I do a fair bit of pro bono education events of this nature annually in Edmonton so it is no problem.

[killer_carlson]

I would be very surprised if there would be an insurance policy to cover this

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is a very common thing in Vancouver. In fact, it's so common that I'd suggest not buying anything here made in the 80s to the early 2000s. Unfortunately, it was a time period where lots of developers were putting up cookie cutter buildings and cutting corners.

Originally Posted by Table 5

Has it really gotten better? Every time I go into a new-built condo, it feels cheaply thrown together. The stuff built in the 60s/70s might look ugly in comparison (and have post-tention cable issues in some instances), but they seem to be build to a more solid standard than what you get today.

I have a feeling we're going to be seeing a lot more of this kind of stuff going forward, especially of condos/homes built in the 2000s boom era.

Rainscreen building code was made a requirement in 1999. Before that, building envelopes were not being made with the required air cavity to let moisture out and that's when Vancouver had the leaky condo crises (1980s - 1990s).
Builders thought making the exterior extremely tight was going to keep moisture out, but it finds a way in and then has no way out so it slowly rots in the wall systems, causes mold etc.

In 2006, the BC building code was updated again with even better requirements to envelope construction.

Despite you not thinking new buildings feel "solid", they are a far safer condo purchase in regards to envelope leaks, not to mention the 5 year envelope warranty that comes with all new condos.

[ranchlandsselling]

That sucks.

Best thing and also the worst thing is to be on the board. You know what's going on, you know why, and you'll also understand that the board is generally working in the average owners best interests. Downside is (as long as you actually participate) a lot of work, being taken advantage of, and then whether you participate or not a lot of abuse, blamed for residents problems, and generally disliked. Since the board is almost always made up of like minded residents it means they're usually in the same position as the average owner.

Much too often residents take up a adversarial position against the board and see them as this mean/evil entity that's out there to charge money/condo fees/force bylaws upon you and special assess. Well, sadly they're also special assessing themselves, charging themselves condo fees and following the bylaws. Except on top of all that they're managing your property, worrying about your property for you, maintaining your property for you and all on a volunteer basis. Additionally chances are they're on a board of which a few do all the work and the rest are just there to have the inside scoop and make yay or nay comments. As well, too often residents forget that there's so much more work being on the board than newsletters and monthly coffee meetings. Residents complain about lack of communication but are the most passive, apathetic bunch.


That said, it doesn't make a massive special assessment any more palatable. But I do urge everyone who owns a condo to either volunteer for their board, show up to AGM's and otherwise try to participate. It's a real eye opener to see how much hard work goes into managing a condo project (for free).

Signed a condo board president and board member for 6 years.

[Calgary14]

I can't imagine the majority of the owners being able to come up with $64k within 30 days. I really feel for the owners that are forced to deal with this

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

1. Ask your board to hold an info meeting
2. Talk to your bank
3. Try calling the Condo Cash Program. They have options for condo corps to borrow
4. If you and some neighbors want to hire a lawyer for specific analysis and advice, PM me.

Do you (or anyone) know what type of interest rate/amortization they or other lenders typically offer to a condo corp?

[killer_carlson]

The issue with lenders is the security, or lack thereof. A condo corp usually owns no assets. The security a condo corp can give is an assignment of the right to do a cash call at a later date if the loan goes into default (lack of payment, builders liens, etc). As a result, traditional lenders shy away and the secondary lenders are who provide the service.

Last time I checked the rates are around 7.5-8%, but every case is different. Best bet is to speak to those who offer the service.

[GGG]

Your bank may be interested in loaning you the money. When I was on a Condo Board we moved to forclose on a person who owed 8k to the board. As soon as that process went through the bank that held the mortgage paid us out to maintain their position as the only creditor.

Since you are underwater this might not be as atrractive to the bank but the info we got from our manager was banks protect their rights to forclose on people.

[Drummer]

The Bella Vista, at 1800 14A St SW had a very similar issue in 2009/2010, about 80% of the owners foreclosed on their units, prices went from the $400,000s to the $200,000s.

[Drummer]

Slightly off topic but still condo related... Has anyone ever dealt with Condominium First (before they changed their name)? I've heard from some friends that their property managers were horrible at returning emails and phone calls.

[ranchlandsselling]

I looked into the lending of monies to a condo corp. Rates were terrible and it basically sank the condo's finances for years and years going out, not to mention the hit on resale value would likely be similar as just foreclosing on units. In the long run I think it's better to borrow as individuals or walk/foreclose. Owning in a complex with debt would be equally as bad as just walking or taking the hit and moving on. Except with the debt you're not moving on . . .

[stampsx2]

I really wish there was such a thing as special assessment insurance.

[calgarywinning]

To be honest, owning a Condo and being subjected to the board and the whims are the same thing as paying city tax, provincial tax and federal tax.

They may own and have owner interest at or in some portion of their mind, but the power for these people and the level of revenue they are controlling is probably more than they have in any part of their life. A common group of people tend to be on the board and tend to control the common areas and legislate them for their own purpose or feelings.

While I agree your participation is required for a better outcome, it's just not in the cards for the average owner due to schedules. They have a taxation base, you as the owner and they do make unpopular decisions.

The fact is that if there is a major problem that requires this structure to be worked on to this degree, it could be that you could lose your WHOLE investment.

In my case, they are painting the exterior side of the door and not the whole door this week. I said I would pay to have the whole door painted and they said they would consider that in the future but not at this time.

Anyways, good luck and be sure to look at it objectively and protect your whole investment. Just like the example of the Bella Vista it's better to take competent, engineered approach to remediating the problem fully and to take the hit up front that lose massive market valuation.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

I looked into the lending of monies to a condo corp. Rates were terrible and it basically sank the condo's finances for years and years going out, not to mention the hit on resale value would likely be similar as just foreclosing on units. In the long run I think it's better to borrow as individuals or walk/foreclose. Owning in a complex with debt would be equally as bad as just walking or taking the hit and moving on. Except with the debt you're not moving on . . .

however, there is substantial negative effect on property values when several (or more) of the units are sitting empty and waiting for the forclosure sales to go through. The banks will not want to flood the market for that building with "as is" sales, as it affects their values as well.

Every condo is different. There are times where compelling an individual to arrange their own financing is the right decision, and there are times where the corporation borrowing is the right decision.

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

To be honest, owning a Condo and being subjected to the board and the whims are the same thing as paying city tax, provincial tax and federal tax.

They may own and have owner interest at or in some portion of their mind, but the power for these people and the level of revenue they are controlling is probably more than they have in any part of their life. A common group of people tend to be on the board and tend to control the common areas and legislate them for their own purpose or feelings.

While I agree your participation is required for a better outcome, it's just not in the cards for the average owner due to schedules. They have a taxation base, you as the owner and they do make unpopular decisions.

The fact is that if there is a major problem that requires this structure to be worked on to this degree, it could be that you could lose your WHOLE investment.

In my case, they are painting the exterior side of the door and not the whole door this week. I said I would pay to have the whole door painted and they said they would consider that in the future but not at this time.

Anyways, good luck and be sure to look at it objectively and protect your whole investment. Just like the example of the Bella Vista it's better to take competent, engineered approach to remediating the problem fully and to take the hit up front that lose massive market valuation.

To the bolded parts I'd suggest you're being an assumptive prick! I've got much better things to do on a Friday night or Saturday night when the majority of people my age are out with friends or doing other social activities. Not me, I'm sitting on my computer budgeting out our expenditures for the next 12 months. Or looking at the reserve fund study we just had completed that outlays our costs for the next 25 years and how it impacts everyone's finances (mine, yours, our neighbors, the family with 2 kids, the guy who's 36 months behind on his fees). Or writing a letter to the single mom that's complaining about her condo fees as to why she can't go a few months without paying. Or to the individual who wants different contractors to repair his part of the building, or to the owner who thinks the ice that's melted off the snowbank our removal company created, should be removed at all costs even though the unit they bought has a slope towards it, so unless the unit gets put up on stilts there's always going to be a bit of run off by that unit. Oh wait, there's also the lady who moved to the condo and her dog is now confused so it has to crap all over the lawn and kill the grass because walking it to the park must be so confusing, and now because of "The board" they have to surrender the pet because we're being mean about it killing the grass when they have no other option (except walk the dog). Oh wait, there's also the adjacent building that's cutting down our trees that needs to be dealt with, wait, it's probably more important to fix the roofs that are leaking at the complex as a result of the onslaught of rain. But wait, there's just been a massive FLOOD in the city of Calgary and contractors (and everyone else in the city) is fully booked rebuilding entire city blocks, but wait, we finally have a roofer that will come to the complex, but the person complaining about the leaking roof doesn't answer the door because they forgot they had an important BBQ to attend to this Saturday. Wasn't it nice the contractor managed to make it out on a weekend? Nope, complaining owner don't care, but when the contractor now wants to come 9-5 on a weekday, when complaining owner has to be at work, 5 days a week, and it's the boards fault that his roof isn't going to get fixed, because he's only free on evenings and weekends... Unless he's got a BBQ to attend.

No, when my wife is complaining that I'm going to another 3 hour meeting this month that I always hope will only be two hours when we've got stuff to do around the house and god knows what else to do. I'm doing it because I'm not busy or don't have the average owner schedule like work and family and friends. No, my one full time job, second job (for extra income and career improvement), school, family and what other responsibilities (Calgary puck) I have aren't at all comparable to, for example you and your painted door issue or the issues which must be stopping the 60% of owners that cant be bothered to show up at an AGM.

I'm not complaining about the workload, because I signed up and chose to participate and will do so until I've done what I can and have the ability to quit at any point. But I do have the right to complain about people that make assumptions that we do it because we're not busy or that we are managing something above and beyond our means. Which, regardless whether or not either are true, it's still better than 95% of the other owners who chose not to participate.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

LOL @ "CalgaryWinning". Kid - you are welcome to come by my office anytime and we'll compares resumes anytime if you think I have nothing better to do...

The funny part is when people like that actually get on Boards - had a few of those. Actually it's not funny - my favorite was the "poker" player who decided a BS slip and fall claim against the Board he was on was the best way to make up for his winnings. Yeah, because the parkade ramp is a great place is play basketball...

Decisions are made by those that come out. The peanut gallery does love to chirp though.

[calgarywinning]

I think you have issues and should avail yourself to your ability to quit. I think your post and it's hateful nature express some of the points that I am trying to make about people in your position. The peanut gallery versus the almighty, yet at the condo there they are all equal owners not a peanut gallery. And by your own admission it was your choice to be involved but by the tone of your post you hate it.

I am comparing the condo board to general government. That a common group of people tend to run and get elected, that regardless of platform they become the government and govern according to their own special interest. Incumbent politicians and their 'tudes are evident and abound and on display. They seem to linger and take on a holier than though attitude and forget the position is to serve.

I then go on to say that participation is a major factor for a good outcome but not everybody can be involved because of their schedule. You and a couple others argue that's bullcrap.. I disagree, I think most people sign up for condo life because they think everything will be managed but soon realized it is strata/board reliant and are disappointed because they were looking to minimize their household living management. So if your argument is you deserve to make these decisions because of the election at the AGM you are right by law. However, I would argue that the distress of a special assessment without consulting the people you are to serve is wrong.

I then go on to offer my advise and consolation to the person who is faced with a 60,000 special assessment due in 30 days, may need to be dealt with as such to retain his investment value.

Your assumptive nature doesn't even assume that I have not served on a condo board.

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

To the bolded parts I'd suggest you're being an assumptive prick! I've got much better things to do on a Friday night or Saturday night when the majority of people my age are out with friends or doing other social activities. Not me, I'm sitting on my computer budgeting out our expenditures for the next 12 months. Or looking at the reserve fund study we just had completed that outlays our costs for the next 25 years and how it impacts everyone's finances (mine, yours, our neighbors, the family with 2 kids, the guy who's 36 months behind on his fees). Or writing a letter to the single mom that's complaining about her condo fees as to why she can't go a few months without paying. Or to the individual who wants different contractors to repair his part of the building, or to the owner who thinks the ice that's melted off the snowbank our removal company created, should be removed at all costs even though the unit they bought has a slope towards it, so unless the unit gets put up on stilts there's always going to be a bit of run off by that unit. Oh wait, there's also the lady who moved to the condo and her dog is now confused so it has to crap all over the lawn and kill the grass because walking it to the park must be so confusing, and now because of "The board" they have to surrender the pet because we're being mean about it killing the grass when they have no other option (except walk the dog). Oh wait, there's also the adjacent building that's cutting down our trees that needs to be dealt with, wait, it's probably more important to fix the roofs that are leaking at the complex as a result of the onslaught of rain. But wait, there's just been a massive FLOOD in the city of Calgary and contractors (and everyone else in the city) is fully booked rebuilding entire city blocks, but wait, we finally have a roofer that will come to the complex, but the person complaining about the leaking roof doesn't answer the door because they forgot they had an important BBQ to attend to this Saturday. Wasn't it nice the contractor managed to make it out on a weekend? Nope, complaining owner don't care, but when the contractor now wants to come 9-5 on a weekday, when complaining owner has to be at work, 5 days a week, and it's the boards fault that his roof isn't going to get fixed, because he's only free on evenings and weekends... Unless he's got a BBQ to attend.

No, when my wife is complaining that I'm going to another 3 hour meeting this month that I always hope will only be two hours when we've got stuff to do around the house and god knows what else to do. I'm doing it because I'm not busy or don't have the average owner schedule like work and family and friends. No, my one full time job, second job (for extra income and career improvement), school, family and what other responsibilities (Calgary puck) I have aren't at all comparable to, for example you and your painted door issue or the issues which must be stopping the 60% of owners that cant be bothered to show up at an AGM.

I'm not complaining about the workload, because I signed up and chose to participate and will do so until I've done what I can and have the ability to quit at any point. But I do have the right to complain about people that make assumptions that we do it because we're not busy or that we are managing something above and beyond our means. Which, regardless whether or not either are true, it's still better than 95% of the other owners who chose not to participate.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Drummer

Slightly off topic but still condo related... Has anyone ever dealt with Condominium First (before they changed their name)? I've heard from some friends that their property managers were horrible at returning emails and phone calls.

My condo association engaged two others (during my ~10 years as an owner) before ending up with them and they're basically the same as everyone else. Not spectacular but things seem to get done.

I had to use the 'Emergency Service' number one and things turned out OK. On the couple of (non-emergency) occasions that I needed to speak with someone, it took a couple of attempts to get someone on the phone. I would rate the experience as on-par with calling any other busy service provider. YMMV, but I'm content with them.

[saillias]

Wow, and I thought my special assessment fees were bad. The condo board is fighting an ongoing legal battle with a former tenant who is claiming a board member is stealing money. So everyone paid about $1000 in special assessments to cover the board's legal fees in 2013

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by Drummer

Slightly off topic but still condo related... Has anyone ever dealt with Condominium First (before they changed their name)? I've heard from some friends that their property managers were horrible at returning emails and phone calls.

I deal with them on my own condo and they are a pain in the ass. I have had nothing but problems with them. I am currently going through another issue with them and it has been slightly better but not much. Feel free to PM me if you want to hear more.