Remember... Kirill Kabanov?

[FAN]

Well Kabanov quietly put up some good numbers for MODO last season so maybe he is better suited to play in a league that isn't that physical?

I actually don't mind the Islanders taking guys like Kabanov and Petrov. Swing for the fences.

[Point Blank]

The actual lesson of this is that fans should hold off on the pitchforks when teams go off the board to draft a player.

Ex. the amount of rabble by some posters on this forum after picking Hickey is silly. Do the witchhunt later...

[GGG]

I still think we should have taken Kabanov. Swing for he fences with later pics. Having or not having Reinhart will not make or break our cup chances. But getting an allstar in the 3rd round could.

Im sure you could have drafted a much higher probability bottom 6 forward than Gaudreau with that 5th round pick but instead we took a guy who shouldnt have made it.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by GGG

I still think we should have taken Kabanov. Swing for he fences with later pics. Having or not having Reinhart will not make or break our cup chances. But getting an allstar in the 3rd round could.

Im sure you could have drafted a much higher probability bottom 6 forward than Gaudreau with that 5th round pick but instead we took a guy who shouldnt have made it.

You pick Gaudreau because he has the character to overcome his physical limitations.
You don't pick Granlund because his character actually holds him back from taking advantage of his physical gifts.

Two very different picks.

If you are going to roll the dice in those later rounds - you still need to pick guys with a certain make-up.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GGG

I still think we should have taken Kabanov. Swing for he fences with later pics. Having or not having Reinhart will not make or break our cup chances. But getting an allstar in the 3rd round could.

Sure, drafting an all-star in the third round is massive.

However, Kirill Kabanov is not an all-star, nor will he ever be. He will never play a single game in the NHL. The only thing that selecting him would have gotten us was a lot of bitching from fans complaining that we wasted the pick.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Sure, drafting an all-star in the third round is massive.

However, Kirill Kabanov is not an all-star, nor will he ever be. He will never play a single game in the NHL. The only thing that selecting him would have gotten us was a lot of bitching from fans complaining that we wasted the pick.

Max Reinhart had/has a 0% chance of becoming an All-Star. Krill Kabanov had some chance greater than 0 of becoming an All-star.

You can't just look at the outcome of a draft years later and say who made the right choice. The draft is like Schrodengers Cat.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GGG

Max Reinhart had/has a 0% chance of becoming an All-Star. Krill Kabanov had some chance greater than 0 of becoming an All-star.

You can't just look at the outcome of a draft years later and say who made the right choice. The draft is like Schrodengers Cat.

Of course you can.

We all knew what the choice was right when that pick was made: Go for the risky Russian prospect whose stock had fallen from high first round pick to third rounder, or go for a 'safer' pick.

A lot of people wanted the risky Russian. But history has shown that Sutter made the right choice. More accurately, given there were obviously many other players that could have been picked, Sutter made a better choice than he would have with Kabanov.

[bubbsy]

was there any comment from the isles on why the chose to cut him?

Could have been that he stated he has no interest in coming to the NHL and wants to stay closer to the motherland?

Am curious if another NHL will take a shot on him.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

was there any comment from the isles on why the chose to cut him?

Could have been that he stated he has no interest in coming to the NHL and wants to stay closer to the motherland?

Am curious if another NHL will take a shot on him.

According to this there was no one specific issue with the Islanders:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...medium=twitter

Garth Snow drafted Kabanov, who turns 22 on Wednesday, in the third round when most teams wouldn’t touch the gifted but behaviorally challenged forward who came from Russia to play in the QMJHL. Kabanov stayed with Isles player development director Eric Cairns for a time the summer after that 2010 draft, joined AHL Bridgeport for the 2012-13 season and recovered from a skate cut to start last season in Bridgeport.

But things devolved from there. The Isles sent Kabanov to Stockton of the ECHL, then Kabanov asked to play in Europe and was granted that move midseason, joining MoDo of the Swedish League.

There was no specific incident that led to the waiver decision, just an accumulation of headaches of which the team had enough.

[Poe969]

to be fair to Kabanov, the islanders have a lot of headaches because they make dumb decision after dumb decision. Maybe another team will take a chance on him and he'll do great or maybe he'll go to the KHL never to be heard from again.

I think the sure fire way for him to get back to the NHL would be to either post a video of a bunch of amazing goals on youtube and send the link to the oilers or just make a DVD and send it to them. Other than the oil, I don't see another team taking a chance on him.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

And this is why we have a do not draft list. Something which some posters have mocked but there's a reason for it, some kids just have a big issue that limits their chances of develoig into an NHLer strongly.

Btw can't believe GGG's posts in this thread. Anyone still trying to argue from Kabanov is completely deluded.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Of course you can.

We all knew what the choice was right when that pick was made: Go for the risky Russian prospect whose stock had fallen from high first round pick to third rounder, or go for a 'safer' pick.

A lot of people wanted the risky Russian. But history has shown that Sutter made the right choice. More accurately, given there were obviously many other players that could have been picked, Sutter made a better choice than he would have with Kabanov.

We knew that Reinhart was a higher likelyhood to make the NHL at the time of the draft. We knew that Krill had a much higher ceiling and much lower probability of making it.

The fact that Krill didn't make it and Reinhart will be a 4th/maybe 3rd line player doesn't change anything to the basis of which pick you make. The most likely result was both busting out, followed by Reinhart making it and Krill busting. That one of the two most likely scenarios occured doesn't change the original debate.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And this is why we have a do not draft list. Something which some posters have mocked but there's a reason for it, some kids just have a big issue that limits their chances of develoig into an NHLer strongly.

Btw can't believe GGG's posts in this thread. Anyone still trying to argue from Kabanov is completely deluded.

If Reinhart had busted out which he likely would have 70% of the time and might still. Would one pick still be better than the other? You are basing which choice was better on information that was not available at the time of the pick.

To me it is still back to the philosophy of a 3rd round pick. I don't really have an issue with the Reinhart pick but I still perfer with 3rd round and lower picks to draft for ceiling rather than probability of making it.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

If Reinhart had busted out which he likely would have 70% of the time and might still. Would one pick still be better than the other? You are basing which choice was better on information that was not available at the time of the pick.

To me it is still back to the philosophy of a 3rd round pick. I don't really have an issue with the Reinhart pick but I still perfer with 3rd round and lower picks to draft for ceiling rather than probability of making it.

It has to be a blend of both. No point drafting a guy like a 2% chance of being a star when you could have a guy who has a 50% chance of being a solid NHLer. You want guys who are good bets and have good upside.

Kabanov was a headcase and thus many scouts didn't believe he'd ever turn out. That's why he dropped. He's a great example of the type of player that generally just isn't worth ever taking a chance on. He was both Russian and a headcase so there's two factors that make him riskier.

Glad we stayed away and pretty damn happy with the Reinhart. If you want you can see me defending the Reinhart pick at the time.

[Poe969]

I understand what GGG is saying here.... At the time of the pick, the Flames took the safer bet to make the NHL but the longer shot at being an NHL star. The odds of Kabanov making the NHL were lower than Reinharts but the odds of Reinhart being a game breaker were lower than Kabanovs. Kabanov was one of those "swing for the fences" pick. Who knows if he would have turned out that way under different circumstances. I think if a team like the wings would have taken him and showed him structure then he could have turned out better. But then there is the "do not draft list" that teams have and maybe the teams he could have succeeded on had him on their DND list.

Either way, Kabanov is a bust. Compare him to whomever you want but he's still not an NHL star and likely will never become one.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It has to be a blend of both. No point drafting a guy like a 2% chance of being a star when you could have a guy who has a 50% chance of being a solid NHLer. You want guys who are good bets and have good upside.

Kabanov was a headcase and thus many scouts didn't believe he'd ever turn out. That's why he dropped. He's a great example of the type of player that generally just isn't worth ever taking a chance on. He was both Russian and a headcase so there's two factors that make him riskier.

Glad we stayed away and pretty damn happy with the Reinhart. If you want you can see me defending the Reinhart pick at the time.

My main point is just that the outcome doesn't neccessarily prove that the methodolgy was right. I think it is fair to debate the methodolgy but using a sample size of 1 doesn't do it. I think your assessment is definately valid though.

It will be interesting to see how Hosang turns out as a guy with all world talent but a bit of a head case and on many teams DNR list.

[Resolute 14]

^That is fair. It is certainly possible to make the right choice for the wrong reasons.