Let's play Keep or Dump

[Vinny01]

The only players itching the Flames should really keep are
Monahan
Colborne
Giordano
Brodie
Bouma
Smid
McGratten

I think you keep 1 of Hudler and Glencross. Move Cammy, Stajan, Butler at the deadline. I think Burke moves Russell due to size. I am not sold on either goalie but Ramo is signed so you might as well keep him. I would like the Flames to get value in a Wideman trade but that is doubtful I have no problem keeping him but he is not a long term piece. Love to trade SOB but he has no value and fits the Burke mold for a 5-7 Dman. I think Backlund is a good player but he is a movable asset. Jones is very expendable but probably not worth a buyout unless the cap space is required.

[N-E-B]

Keep:
Monahan
Baertschi
Gio
Smid
Wideman
Russell
Colborne
Stajan (yes, Stajan)
Bouma
McGrattan
SOB (if he's limited to 5-6mins/night, he's a good agitator)
Brodie
Byron
Hudler

Dump:
Butler
Cammy
Backlund
Breen

Undecided:
Galiardi
D. Jones
B. Jones

They're undecided because I like the way they play but they don't put up enough points and in the case of B. Jones I don't know if he's a full time NHLer.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Keep:
Monahan
Hudler
Russel
Gio
Brodie

Dump:
Everyone else

I do not like the make up/chemistry of this team one bit. This might ne the most non descript teams we have ever iced. There is no one on this team other than the few I mentioned above that I would pay to watch play. This team is hot garbage.

Right at this moment I think this post best reflects my opinion. Adding Colborne as a keeper

Some assets have shown decent value but I think Burke has little trouble identifying strategic pieces.

[BlueCharlton]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

So I might be in the minority here, but I think we should consider packaging Baertschi, Gaudreau and Gillies in a deal at the deadline..

I would keep Gillies, as I consider him to be our best goalie prospect and I think he has a great size/athleticism combination which I think can make him successful in the future.

As for the other two, it would really depend on the return. Looking at those two players we are trading, they are probably the only prospects (outside of Monahan) we have who have that first line potential. Gaudreau has the potential to be elite(Kane is a lofty expectation, but it is possible), and baertschi has the skill, just not the mental toughness (for now) to be a first line left winger.

Gaudreau is an unknown, you are basically trading potential here. Baertschi is a little more known, and while he has struggled a bit, he still is very very young and may still live up to that first line potential that I think he has.

I honestly don't know if we could package these guys in a way that could significantly improve our team now and in the future. I think the only way to do this would be to maybe find a team who is willing to overpay for a guy like Gaudreau who imo does have that elite potential in him.

You kind of also have to look at this as a relationship type move between the players and the team. I don't know what kind of message it is sending if we traded two of our best prospects away when we are rebuilding. It doesn't look good for us and it may deter good players/prospects from wanting to play here.

I would only make a deal like this if the return was way to good to pass up, and I think that only happens if like I said someone buys into the potential of Gaudreau. Even if we did get that, the players we would be getting back would probably be of the same mold, prospects with potential. I just don't think that a deal of this caliber is realistic at this point in time.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DOOM

He playing above his pay grade now, agreed. However, he is not a top 4 d-man on this team when everyone is healthy and unless he signs a similar contract I would be looking to move him.

What more does he have to prove to convice you and others he is legit top 4?

@ 1.5m this year he is a mega bargain. Add another 1.5m to thart total and that is where I would be comfortable on a per year salary at three years/ He has been at the very VERY least the Flames' second best D-mann this year. And Earned it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Keep:

Brodie - is the best young defenseman we have with any top four potential. Fills an organizational need.
Colborne - is a big body with skill. Fits the direction Burke wants to go. Performs well above acquisition cost.
Monahan - is a big body with skill. Fits the direction Burke wants to go.
McGrattan - team plays better and bigger when he's in the lineup. Unless Bouma and a couple other guys start playing that role, McGrattan appears to be a necessary evil.
Berra/Ramo - until they find another goaltender with a zero acquisition cost ride what you have. They have been sufficient for the team and played well.

Dump:

Butler, Cammalleri, Galiardi, Stajan, Russell, Stempniak - all UFAs must go. Continue to accrue assets for players you are about to lose and don't fit long term. The only one of this group I consider retaining is Stempniak and he is playing like he doesn't want to be here. Everything must go.

Breen - AHL level player. Can use the contract for development of players with NHL potential.
Byron - does not fit the mold of player the team is looking for. Too small and not enough skill.
David Jones - buy out. Better and more productive players in the minors.
O'Brien - low hockey IQ. Kind of player we need to divest ourselves of.

Listen to offers on:

Backlund, Baertschi, Bouma, Giordano, Hudler, Smid, Smith, Wideman. If someone comes knocking and makes an offer that makes sense for the long term progression of the team, you make the deal. Otherwise continue to play these guys and prepare for the day when you do dump them for the best return you can get.

Coaching staff:

Some real annoying and stupid components to the system have to change or the staff has to go. There needs to be more emphasis on puck possession so the Hail Mary stretch passes have to go. The drop passes in the neutral zone are becoming way too predictable. The passing to guys to who aren't moving is letting plays die before they have a chance to live. This stuff may work in the Swiss league, but it sure as hell doesn't work in the NHL. The method has to change or the staff has to change.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I'm glad you guys aren't the GM of this team, we'd be icing a team of all rookies.

Why would you want to trade Russell? What are you hoping to get that is better than he is now?
You might get a second rounder but you'd be lucky to draft a player as good as him. He's a young Dman who is playing well above his pay grade, that's the kind of player we should be building around, not dumping.

I don't think people would dump every single guy on their dump list as that would make it impossible to work under the cap rules.

As for Russell I agree that his value is probably pretty low so might as well keep him but at the same time he has been pretty mediocre at best this year and worse than that over his career.

He looks like a top 4 guy on this awful defense but on a real team he is a bottom pairing guy at best. Like he has been for his whole career he is solid at moving the puck and can provide secondary scoring but is soft and weak defensively.

I think he is a better option than the likely 4th round pick he gets but if he were moved it is not a big loss for the Flames because he doesn't add a ton moving forward and they should be able to replace him by the time they are contending fairly easily.

He is a good guy for the rebuild as he fits a role when you aren't concerned with wins and losses.

[FBI]

Curious as to how you can say Russell has been "pretty mediocre at best" this year.
He's been pretty amazing for what we thought we were getting.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FBI

Curious as to how you can say Russell has been "pretty mediocre at best" this year.
He's been pretty amazing for what we thought we were getting.

He can be both.

Although I think pretty amazing is a little much.

He has been better than a guy that cleared waivers but still a guy that looks like a bottom pairing guy on a play-off team. Bottom pairing guys are pretty mediocre in my books.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FBI

Curious as to how you can say Russell has been "pretty mediocre at best" this year.
He's been pretty amazing for what we thought we were getting.

Cause he hasnt a damn clue what he is talking about.

[FBI]

Well lets see, he's 34th in defenseman scoring despite missing some games, he's a rare plus player on a terrible team, he hasn't been a defensive liability at all, and he's ahead of captain Phaneuf (who I recall you being fond of, me as well)

That's certainly sounding like more than a bottom pairing defenseman to me.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FBI

Well lets see, he's 34th in defenseman scoring despite missing some games, he's a rare plus player on a terrible team, he hasn't been a defensive liability at all, and he's ahead of captain Phaneuf (who I recall you being fond of, me as well)

That's certainly sounding like more than a bottom pairing defenseman to me.

Plus/minus is a useless stat, I have seen him play pretty poor defense many times this year but not a liability out there and his offensive numbers seem to be a lot of someone on a bad team will get points. Top 4 guy on a bad team, bottom pairing guy on a good team.

I certainly don't think he has been awful by any means and am fine with him staying on the team I just don't see him as playing well enough that he should be looked at as a core member of the team or a guy that should be kept at all costs.

When I made my list he was in the group of guys that you keep unless the return is something worthwhile (ie. 1st or 2nd pick) and I don't think you dump him just to get rid of him.

[Poe969]

Russell is amazing at being a 5-6 guyor a pp specialist. Nothing more. He doesn't make this team amazing if he stays or that much worse if he goes. If we get a good deal on him then trade him

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Who they acquire is much more interesting to me than who they give up. The flames have barely a dozen decent nhl players on the roster, the dome is a morgue, and the product is crap. They have to improve at every position plus find a couple of players to build around. They should be open to anything.

They probably can't start to address that until the summer though, without getting stupid.

[Volica]

Originally Posted by FBI

Keep:
- Monahan
- Baertschi
- Backlund
- Gio
- Brodie
- Smid
- Hudler
- Bouma
- Colborne
- Russell

Dump:
- Stempniak
- Cammalleri
- David Jones
- Galiardi
- Stajan
- Butler
- SOB
- Breen (waivers, come back in a year or two and see if improved)

Undecided:
- Byron (has been dang good lately but super small, need room for Gaudreau)
- Hartley (has the team playing with good effort but seems to mismanage some of the younger players and make questionable lineup decisions)
- Wideman
- Smith
- Mcgrattan (would prefer Ferland)

Who'd I forget?

Bring up the young guys already and drop the dead weight.

I'd agree with most of this. I think Wideman's expendable; not dump him per se, but I'm certain there is a team in the league that could use a PP QB with a booming shot. He also has developed a decent defensive game in Calgary... Honestly he's not bad at all; we just truly don't need anymore 3-5 guys here... we already have about 5 of them.

I would say keep Big Ern. He's a leader off the ice and a guy who sets the tone. The commentators continuously say how much his boys love him; and what he means to this club. I'd be all for giving him more 4th line time. In addition, Ferland isn't a pure a goon. I think he can top out as a 2nd line power forward, but most likely a third line, hard on the body; but still puts up some numbers type guy.

I agree with Byron. I really like him as of late... That speed is awesome and I have truly enjoyed him on the PK. Saying that... Sven and JG alone would clog up some spots on the roster... and both of them are on the small side; I don't think there's a ton of room for little guys in this Burke system.

[Inferno]

Dump
Berra
Berra
Berra

Did I forget Berra? Oh and Butler too.

[Northendzone]

i am a little surprised at how little love we are giving the goalies.......

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i am a little surprised at how little love we are giving the goalies.......

I"m not, just consider the act they had to follow, big shoes to fill. So peoples expectations are skewed.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i am a little surprised at how little love we are giving the goalies.......

They are both in the 30's for GAA and SV%. Even when you consider that the Calgary defense is terrible in front of them those aren't exactly great stats for guys who are in their mid 20's. Throw in the poor rebound control and poor positioning and it really isn't surprising that there is a big desire to keep these two goalies going forward.

They certainly aren't starter quality now and don't show a lot of signs that they will be in the future.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What more does he have to prove to convice you and others he is legit top 4?

@ 1.5m this year he is a mega bargain. Add another 1.5m to thart total and that is where I would be comfortable on a per year salary at three years/ He has been at the very VERY least the Flames' second best D-mann this year. And Earned it.

Legit top 4 is a big stretch. Maybe on the Flames, but that is not saying much.

I would also like to point out that a lot of CP'ers seem to look at good playing streaks and think they are the norm or going to be the norm. Look no further than Stempniak this year. A lot of CP wanted him re-signed at the start of the year forgetting how streaky he is. I also look at someone like Smith who in his first 20 games or so looked like a bottom 5-6 d-man that could play top 4 in a pinch. Are you going to tell me he looks the same now?

I would not mind if they gave Russell a one year extension, but i would be wary of giving him more than that. I watched a lot of Blues games last year, and on a more defensive system he did not look that great. There was a reason they brought in a bunch of other d-men to replace him and he was not claimed on waivers. I'm not convinced his defensive game is as good as some CP'ers think it is and that Hartley's slightly lacking defensive system has something to do with that. I don't think Hartley will be around for a full year next year, and if they bring in a more defensive style coach and system, i could see Russell's play reverting back more to the Blues days.