I actually do not want this. You can be physical and in someone's face without punching the crap out of him at every opportunity. Goon hockey isn't winning hockey anymore.
Of course I want the Flames to be a hard working and very physical team, but I don't think they should replace wins on the scoreboard with wins with the fists.
It's not goon hockey... It's hockey. Don't need to instigate useless fights but kipper got bumped way too many times the last 2 seasons and nothing was done about it by the flames... They would look at the refs and complain for a penalty... That's not how to bring the team together the way it needs to to be successful.
Flames coaching staff need to receive a full commitment from the entire roster and dedication from the few veterans to not slack off. Teach the young players the good habits. They have to be tough to play against.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Stay Golden For This Useful Post:
It's not goon hockey... It's hockey. Don't need to instigate useless fights but kipper got bumped way too many times the last 2 seasons and nothing was done about it by the flames... They would look at the refs and complain for a penalty... That's not how to bring the team together the way it needs to to be successful.
I'm not disagreeing with the need to be physical and defend the goalie, but you are saying they should basically fight someone every time it happens. I disagree.
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
1) Bench Glencross, when he takes a dumb penalty/doesn't back check
2) Realize Stempniak has bounced around the league for a reason... he isn't that good and has no future upside. At best the Flames may get a 3rd rounder for him...is it worth it for him to be a first liner/1st PP unit? Not in my opinion.
3) Give key minutes to Brodie/Backlund/Baertschi/Colborne/Monahan. If they succeed after ten games (Monahan 9 games) keep them in their roles. If they don't send them down/limit minutes on a go forward basis, give them specific areas to work on.
4) Make sure McGrattan, Jackman, Bouma, O'Brein know there roles. If liberties are taken at Hudler/Cammy/Sven/Backlund/Brodie that guy should be convinced to not do it again.
5) Management to note that our "first line" Stemp, Stajan, Glencross is a below average third line on a top flight team and a 2nd line on a non contender/miss playoffs team. Don't give them excessive minutes a game, all 4 lines should be within 2-4 minutes of eachother. I don't ever want to see their TOI over 20min.
The Following User Says Thank You to Dienasty For This Useful Post:
1) Bench Glencross, when he takes a dumb penalty/doesn't back check
2) Realize Stempniak has bounced around the league for a reason... he isn't that good and has no future upside. At best the Flames may get a 3rd rounder for him...is it worth it for him to be a first liner/1st PP unit? Not in my opinion.
3) Give key minutes to Brodie/Backlund/Baertschi/Colborne/Monahan. If they succeed after ten games (Monahan 9 games) keep them in their roles. If they don't send them down/limit minutes on a go forward basis, give them specific areas to work on.
4) Make sure McGrattan, Jackman, Bouma, O'Brein know there roles. If liberties are taken at Hudler/Cammy/Sven/Backlund/Brodie that guy should be convinced to not do it again.
5) Management to note that our "first line" Stemp, Stajan, Glencross is a below average third line on a top flight team and a 2nd line on a non contender/miss playoffs team. Don't give them excessive minutes a game, all 4 lines should be within 2-4 minutes of eachother. I don't ever want to see their TOI over 20min.
Agree with you on most points.
Just watched Trouba beat the Oilers.. A week to 10 days ago ago it was 50-50 whether Trouba would stay up with the Jets. Let Sieloff play.... (and not just 5-6 spot.... Pair him with Gio or Brodie or Wideman and throw them in the deep end.
Don't limit responsibility to Glencross. When Stempniak and Butler and Hudler and Baertschi and Backlund and Stajan and Cammalerri and Horak skate away to the bench from the goalie being run let them sit on the bench for a period or 2. It is not enough to let Glencross and Gio be the only ones going into a scrum.
Not wanting them all to be dropping the gloves and going but they have to be part of the gang. They have to support the tough players. They are all strong men and should be able to at least show up and hold on to the bullies on the other team.
I hope it was just a case of Bouwmeester leading by example but the Flames did not stand up for their team mates last year.
1) Bench Glencross, when he takes a dumb penalty/doesn't back check
2) Realize Stempniak has bounced around the league for a reason... he isn't that good and has no future upside. At best the Flames may get a 3rd rounder for him...is it worth it for him to be a first liner/1st PP unit? Not in my opinion.
3) Give key minutes to Brodie/Backlund/Baertschi/Colborne/Monahan. If they succeed after ten games (Monahan 9 games) keep them in their roles. If they don't send them down/limit minutes on a go forward basis, give them specific areas to work on.
4) Make sure McGrattan, Jackman, Bouma, O'Brein know there roles. If liberties are taken at Hudler/Cammy/Sven/Backlund/Brodie that guy should be convinced to not do it again.
5) Management to note that our "first line" Stemp, Stajan, Glencross is a below average third line on a top flight team and a 2nd line on a non contender/miss playoffs team. Don't give them excessive minutes a game, all 4 lines should be within 2-4 minutes of eachother. I don't ever want to see their TOI over 20min.
While I agree that it would be nict to promote the young guys immediately into big roles, dumping on our veterans and exposing the kids are pretty poor "strategies", if you can even call them that. Giving the kids sheltered minutes as they start their NHL careers allows them to adjust to the game and reduce the risk of ending up injured.
Promoting Stempniak and Stajan (and Cammalleri) into taking on more minutes helps the team in multiple ways. Not only does it allow the kids to play sheltered minutes against weaker defenders but it also increases the trade value of these veterans that we will likely be shipping out at the deadline.
I would much rather see the Flames management "realize" that if they make Stajan and Stempniak look like valuable additions to the team that other teams will see that value and start a bidding war for their services. Then instead of sucking eggs for a "3rd rounder at best" we can try to trade Stempniak for a 2nd+. If he has 20 goals by the trade deadline then I would hope to get a 1st for him.
1) Bench Glencross, when he takes a dumb penalty/doesn't back check
2) Realize Stempniak has bounced around the league for a reason... he isn't that good and has no future upside. At best the Flames may get a 3rd rounder for him...is it worth it for him to be a first liner/1st PP unit? Not in my opinion.
3) Give key minutes to Brodie/Backlund/Baertschi/Colborne/Monahan. If they succeed after ten games (Monahan 9 games) keep them in their roles. If they don't send them down/limit minutes on a go forward basis, give them specific areas to work on.
4) Make sure McGrattan, Jackman, Bouma, O'Brein know there roles. If liberties are taken at Hudler/Cammy/Sven/Backlund/Brodie that guy should be convinced to not do it again.
5) Management to note that our "first line" Stemp, Stajan, Glencross is a below average third line on a top flight team and a 2nd line on a non contender/miss playoffs team. Don't give them excessive minutes a game, all 4 lines should be within 2-4 minutes of eachother. I don't ever want to see their TOI over 20min.
While I agree that it would be nict to promote the young guys immediately into big roles, dumping on our veterans and exposing the kids are pretty poor "strategies", if you can even call them that. Giving the kids sheltered minutes as they start their NHL careers allows them to adjust to the game and reduce the risk of ending up injured.
Promoting Stempniak and Stajan (and Cammalleri) into taking on more minutes helps the team in multiple ways. Not only does it allow the kids to play sheltered minutes against weaker defenders but it also increases the trade value of these veterans that we will likely be shipping out at the deadline.
I would much rather see the Flames management "realize" that if they make Stajan and Stempniak look like valuable additions to the team that other teams will see that value and start a bidding war for their services. Then instead of sucking eggs for a "3rd rounder at best" we can try to trade Stempniak for a 2nd+. If he has 20 goals by the trade deadline then I would hope to get a 1st for him.
After 60 games Stempniak to have 20 goals? That would mean he is scoring at a 27 goal in a full season pace...
In his last 3 season he has scored at 19, 19 and 15 rates..... This is if he played all 82 games which becomes more difficult on the other side of 30.
He has been a disappointment in the playoffs far under-performing his regular season performance.
The best hope for him, realistically is a 3rd round pick.
I sure as heck don't want to miss the opportunity for developing the Flames prospects for a shot at an extra 3rd round pick.
Setoguchi younger bigger and better than Stempniak cost the Jets a 2nd round pick.
Frolick a 3rd and a 5th.
I will agree that force feeding Cammalleri (a proven playoff guy) would raise his value and liable to get a 1st round pick at the deadline.
While I agree that it would be nict to promote the young guys immediately into big roles, dumping on our veterans and exposing the kids are pretty poor "strategies", if you can even call them that. Giving the kids sheltered minutes as they start their NHL careers allows them to adjust to the game and reduce the risk of ending up injured.
Promoting Stempniak and Stajan (and Cammalleri) into taking on more minutes helps the team in multiple ways. Not only does it allow the kids to play sheltered minutes against weaker defenders but it also increases the trade value of these veterans that we will likely be shipping out at the deadline.
I would much rather see the Flames management "realize" that if they make Stajan and Stempniak look like valuable additions to the team that other teams will see that value and start a bidding war for their services. Then instead of sucking eggs for a "3rd rounder at best" we can try to trade Stempniak for a 2nd+. If he has 20 goals by the trade deadline then I would hope to get a 1st for him.
Yeah I don't see the upside you do.
Cammalerri will be the only player I think that the Flames could get something for, if he has a solid season. I think he could fetch a late first (if we eat a portion of his contract) to a late 2nd if we don't. However this is contingent on him coming back from injury looking like a legitamate threat. A wrist injured scares me as his game is one timers, and a wicked release.
Stemp in all honestly I think we will be lucky to get a 3rd rounder, not many teams will want to give up a 2nd for a 3rd line rental. I think at best he is worth a 3rd and a 6th.
Stajan isn't talented enough to be a top 6 center for a contender, and isn't strong enough on his skates to be a bottom six center for a contender. Someone might take a shot at him but with his contract, I don't see more then a 3rd and a 4th/5th. He could be a nice versatile, player who can play adequately in every situation and I think that is what the Flames will need to hope for.
Glencross has a NMC so it would be pointless to try to move him.
As well I am not saying don't play these guys, I am just saying don't give them all the prime minutes 1st line PP, last two minutes holding a lead/pressing to score.
I also don't want to see these guys over 20 minutes a game.
After 60 games Stempniak to have 20 goals? That would mean he is scoring at a 27 goal in a full season pace...
In his last 3 season he has scored at 19, 19 and 15 rates..... This is if he played all 82 games which becomes more difficult on the other side of 30.
Last season Stempniak was on pace for 56 points. He may or may not have hit that mark but he had a good season. Perhaps better than his 09-10 season where he had 28 goals in the regular season but only had 48 points.
Stempniak is a bit of a streaky player but he has shown an ability to score when he is hot and if the Flames can show that he is hot with 20 goals by the trade deadline then that would likely increase his value from a 3rd to something more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
He has been a disappointment in the playoffs far under-performing his regular season performance.
The best hope for him, realistically is a 3rd round pick.
I sure as heck don't want to miss the opportunity for developing the Flames prospects for a shot at an extra 3rd round pick.
Setoguchi younger bigger and better than Stempniak cost the Jets a 2nd round pick.
Frolick a 3rd and a 5th.
I will agree that force feeding Cammalleri (a proven playoff guy) would raise his value and liable to get a 1st round pick at the deadline.
Setoguchi was traded in July from a team that was in serious cap troubles and needed to unload a player. I would say that Setoguchi is a much better player than Moore but Moore kept getting traded at the deadline for 2nd round picks.
Frolik is also a player that was traded in the summer from a team that was in cap trouble and needed to unload salary.
The timing and the situation surrounding the trade is as important to be aware of as players and the value of their return. Players value tends to go up at the trade deadline, especially if you can get a bidding war going for a player that can fill in anywhere from the 1st to 3rd line.
So while it is fun bashing away at Stempniak's history, what I am much more interested in is what the value of his trade could be should he have 20 goals marked off by the deadline. Playing first line minutes on a line that is clicking, he could surprise and end up on pace for 60+ points.
Regardless of his history, that kind of pace drives up his value to something closer to a 1st than a 3rd. Maybe 2 2nds from a team that wants to add depth for a cup run.
Last season Stempniak was on pace for 56 points. He may or may not have hit that mark but he had a good season. Perhaps better than his 09-10 season where he had 28 goals in the regular season but only had 48 points.
Stempniak is a bit of a streaky player but he has shown an ability to score when he is hot and if the Flames can show that he is hot with 20 goals by the trade deadline then that would likely increase his value from a 3rd to something more.
Setoguchi was traded in July from a team that was in serious cap troubles and needed to unload a player. I would say that Setoguchi is a much better player than Moore but Moore kept getting traded at the deadline for 2nd round picks.
Frolik is also a player that was traded in the summer from a team that was in cap trouble and needed to unload salary.
The timing and the situation surrounding the trade is as important to be aware of as players and the value of their return. Players value tends to go up at the trade deadline, especially if you can get a bidding war going for a player that can fill in anywhere from the 1st to 3rd line.
So while it is fun bashing away at Stempniak's history, what I am much more interested in is what the value of his trade could be should he have 20 goals marked off by the deadline. Playing first line minutes on a line that is clicking, he could surprise and end up on pace for 60+ points.
Regardless of his history, that kind of pace drives up his value to something closer to a 1st than a 3rd. Maybe 2 2nds from a team that wants to add depth for a cup run.
Let's look at the Stempniak trade history.
He was traded from an out of the playoffs Leafs team in 2010 for Matt Jones a 7/8 d-man with Phoenix that did not dress for 1 game with the Leafs. , and 4th and a 7th.
At the time he had 14 goals and 30 pts in 62 games for the Leafs.
This is right in line with his scoring pace with the Flames 23 goals and 60 pts in 108 games....
Somehow he goes from deadline deal getting a 4th and 7th and a Mikkelson/Carson level D-man to a couple of seconds?????
The Flames picked him up for a end of career, may never play again 4M salary cap Langkow. This was a salary dump by the Flames and it would have been doubtful that the Flames could have gotten a 3rd round or 4th round pick for Langkow. And yet Phoenix won this trade. They got a solid year and 16 playoff games from Langkow.
If we are going into Fantasy land maybe Stajan , Stempniak, Russell and Jackman could be packaged for a Phanuef level d-man or a top 10 draft pick. Stajan, Hagman, White and Mayers did the trick for the Leafs.
