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Old 10-01-2013, 05:36 AM   #41
Devils'Advocate
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Oh, I agree that electric cars are more efficient energy wise than the combustion engine. It is just that my chart shows the energy mix that the province wants to supply to the power grid. Currently cars (at least not most of them) are not ON the power grid. I don't see how Ontario can foresee needing to put 14% LESS power on the grid when we could be adding things as big as CARS onto it.

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Old 10-01-2013, 05:38 AM   #42
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Ahh, I missed that.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:17 AM   #43
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Since mostly we mostly use fossil fuels simply to create energy, getting rid of most of that use actually wouldn't propably be quite the big deal as it's been made out to be.

The price of solar power is closing in on average electricity price fast, and should reach so called grid parity (cost competitiveness with other industry standard sources) within the decade in a lot of places. India and Italy are already there, according to Deutche Bank analysts.



Electric cars are already easily good enough to fill most of our driving needs too.

With a combination of solar and nuclear we could stop burning coal for energy rather quickly and move to mostly electrical cars within maybe two-three decades. That would go really far in solving this mess.

One problem with this is of course the so-called greens (who generally have done little to earn the name in the last couple of decades), who have created such a hysteria over nuclear energy that the use of it is going down rather than up. With the predictable result that use of coal has steadily been going up. No amount of statistics and facts seems to change people's minds on this, people just go insane over this thing.

Nuclear power seems to be a nice whipping boy for people's bent up worries over the environment. Luckily, the advances in solar energy could actually mean we would not need nuclear in most places.

Speaking as a student of social and economic history; people worry way too much about what it would do to change from a power source to a different one,
or what it would do to our standards of living. Most people's standard of living these days have very little to do with the general rise and fall of productivity in our societies and almost everything to do with how wealth is spread and used. Questions of waste and wealth disparity are much more important than the technology behind our electricity.

Generally speaking, technological changes improve people's quality of living over time. Mostly what would happen is that electricity would propably be cheaper, cars would be quieter and the air would be clenaer, and the media would rant about the other ecological disasters looming around the corner.

Besides, our standards of living are so high, that we could easily take quite a drop without really realizing that something happened... as long as everybody around us took it pretty much equally.

The biggest thing that would happen if we started to change away from coal energy and oil-burning cars would be that some companies and countries would lose huge amounts of wealth and power and others would gain tons of it. This is what usually happens with major technological shifts.

Since the fossil fuel industry doesn't actually employ that much in comparison to it's profits, there's little reason to expect that it would have a major long-term employment effect. It would also propably hurt oil-producing areas much less than coal-producing ones.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:51 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate View Post
"Please don't go after the people that pay my bills. Go after those guys over there."



This is where Ontario wants to see itself in 2030. I think it is very overly optimistic, especially when they think they can get by with 14% LESS energy than today via "conservation". Especially if we move towards more electric vehicles. But the move away from fossil fuels (nothing but natural gas by 2030) is a welcome change. However, is it expensive? Absolutely. Can Ontario afford it? Probably not. Will the taxpayer accept the increased cost? Unlikely.

So, let me get this correct. Moving away from fossil fuels is a "welcome change", but also "overly optimistic" and too expensive?

As for your comment about "going after the guys that pay the bills", those guys are necessary to do anything expensive. And it seems to be a similar objection to the one brought up by the general environmentalist movement. They oppose increased oil use, but are MORE against nuclear, Natural gas "fracking", and even increased hydro dam construction. They seem to be against EVERYTHING. Which makes everything more expensive. And it brings up a different argument you made.

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So we should just shut the F up about global warming and look into clean oceans? If we can't solve problem A with ALL of the focus, what makes you think we could resolve A, B, C, D and E if we looked at them all at the same time? All that does is muddy the waters and we make progress on NOTHING (which is actually nothing new... like I said climate change has been on the table for over 20 years).
What is this about ONE problem? Global warming isn't "problem A", it represents a large, complicated, multifaceted problem. Attacking the different facets one at a time isn't muddying the waters, it's the sane way of attempting to solve the problem. Especially a politically tricky one.

And yes, people are able to do more than one thing at a time. For example, we were able to deal with the civil rights movement, at the same time as landing on the moon, and dealing with the rise of the soviet union, and building the interstate freeway system, and inventing computers, all at once. In fact, we got further ahead doing that than if we only focused on one single one of those items, as they each helped solve at least one of the others.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:38 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate View Post
Oh, I agree that electric cars are more efficient energy wise than the combustion engine. It is just that my chart shows the energy mix that the province wants to supply to the power grid. Currently cars (at least not most of them) are not ON the power grid. I don't see how Ontario can foresee needing to put 14% LESS power on the grid when we could be adding things as big as CARS onto it.
Funny you should mention it, electric cars are potentially the solution to the problem. The idea is that a large number of electric cars become a power storage source that the grid can draw from to prevent brownouts or blackouts. The technology isn't there yet and perhaps it won't be by 2030, but if you had a hundred thousand cars in a city that were essentially a power source that the grid can draw from during peak hours, that would do a lot to decrease your required peak electricity production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid

Even beyond electric cars, power storage on the grid is the biggest efficiency savings there is. If you have a reliable, efficient power storage system, then you no longer need to build enough power production to match peak usage. In a hypothetical (and impossible) 100% efficient battery system, you need to produce only enough power to match the average energy consumption.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:29 PM   #46
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...ticle14639865/

Climate deniers are in their own universe, the universe of ideology over reason and logic.

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In typical fashion, Canada’s federal government greeted the IPCC report without making a minister available for comment, instead issuing a three-paragraph press release praising itself and offering partisan, ad hominem attacks against other political parties.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s government has at its core a disproportionate number of that 30 per cent of deniers and skeptics. If you govern for your base, you can’t ignore these people. They are locked in opposition to action, have their own journalists and climate-change scientists who deny the reality of human-induced warming, and therefore live in an intellectual universe quite separate from the majority view of reality in the rest of Canada and the Western world.

Even if the government’s own websites acknowledge the reality of human-induced warming, and even stress the future dangers it portends, no government dependent on how its base views climate change can be seen expending much political capital on the issue.

As a result, while promoting the expansion and transport of bitumen oil at every opportunity, the Environment Minister says as little as possible, the Prime Minister never talks about the issue, the government does a whole bunch of ineffectual things – investments in carbon capture and storage, tax credits for transit passes, subsidies for ethanol, regulations on coal-fired plants that don’t take effect for a long time – while hesitating to do anything that might be seriously effective.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:52 PM   #47
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http://www.news.com.au/technology/en...-1226736568408

A new study on global warming, published in the journal Nature, pinpoints the probable dates for when cities and ecosystems around the world will regularly experience hotter environments the likes of which they have never seen before.

For dozens of cities, mostly in the tropics, those dates are a generation or less away.


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Old 03-31-2014, 10:47 AM   #48
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Press Release:
http://ipcc-wg2.gov/AR5/images/uploa...essRelease.pdf

Climate Change 2014: Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability

http://ipcc-wg2.gov/AR5/

The 10th Session of Working Group II (WGII-10) was held from 25 to 29 March 2014 in Yokohama, Japan. At the Session, the Summary for Policymakers (SPM) of the Working Group II contribution to the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report (WGII AR5) was approved and the underlying scientific and technical assessment accepted.

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode...phecy-of-doom/
"The one message that comes out very clearly is that the world has to adapt and the world has to mitigate ... and the sooner we do that, the less the chances of some of the worst impacts of climate change being faced in different parts of the world.".
Rajendra Pachauri, chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
"It sounds really scary and my main concern about it, isn't so much that it is unrealistic but rather that it spurns a sense of hopelessness. I think whatever we need to do is really push back on that and find empowering ways to engage with youth that focus on building a really positive future with green jobs, focus on alternatives, and renewables rather than the dirty based track we are currently on."
Kelsey Mech, Chair of the University of Victoria's Student Society

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