Summer Prospect Ranking Poll Round 19

[dammage79]

It's Berra time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...Where I got my rep for PIM is wondering how someone playing hard against men take 1 minor penalty the whole season...

No. You got your "rep" from a whole string of posts in which you insist that there is a direct correlation between PIMs and "physicality". You have been applying the stat like some sort of metric for measuring grittiness and toughness for some time now, and it is silly.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

gotta be Bouma now....the guy is practically an NHLer already......has a higher floor than anyone left on the list by far....

How do you figure? The guy is an energy forward with very limited offensive potential. Free agency and the waiver wire are littered with Lance Bouma's.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How do you figure? The guy is an energy forward with very limited offensive potential. Free agency and the waiver wire are littered with Lance Bouma's.

And there are plenty of guys like the other options littering the leagues in Europe, the ECHL and the CIAU.

It is the 19th round the guys left have a slim chance of making the league or a slim chance of being anything more than filler. The fact that Bouma has already shown he can play in the NHL and may be able to be an effective 3rd liner easily puts him near the top of the list and easily ahead of anyone else on the list who all likely never play a role in the NHL at all.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I was pleased to see that last year Breen had 7 fighting majors after 2 years of 3 and 3. I would guess that someone advised him that if he wasn't going to drop the gloves every 10th game he did not have the skills to play in the NHL.

Call Shenanigans all you want, I am just relaying what I have read PMM post about Breen.

If it comes down to whether I believe your analysis of PIM off of a stat sheet versus PMM actually watching Breen play then I am going to believe what I hear from PMM. At this point your post has me think that you are talking out of your ass making some wild analysis of a player from your armchair with no first hand experience watching the player to back up your story about him. Normally I would be okay with this but not when it is trying to dismiss someone's first hand knowledge on the topic.

Anyway, in my experience, physical players do not take penalties because they play physical. They take penalties because they make the wrong choices in their physical game. It is also a pretty common occurance for a physical guy to be slow and if he starts using his stick to hook a guy and doesn't have his feet moving then that almost always translates into a penalty.

Moon's example of Weber being a dominant physical player with low PIM is exactly what we would hope to get out of Breen. Physical without the penalties.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Call Shenanigans all you want, I am just relaying what I have read PMM post about Breen.

If it comes down to whether I believe your analysis of PIM off of a stat sheet versus PMM actually watching Breen play then I am going to believe what I hear from PMM. At this point your post has me think that you are talking out of your ass making some wild analysis of a player from your armchair with no first hand experience watching the player to back up your story about him. Normally I would be okay with this but not when it is trying to dismiss someone's first hand knowledge on the topic.

Anyway, in my experience, physical players do not take penalties because they play physical. They take penalties because they make the wrong choices in their physical game. It is also a pretty common occurance for a physical guy to be slow and if he starts using his stick to hook a guy and doesn't have his feet moving then that almost always translates into a penalty.

Moon's example of Weber being a dominant physical player with low PIM is exactly what we would hope to get out of Breen. Physical without the penalties.

The Shenanigans is on the narrative that Breen has somehow started to play smarter and toned down his over the top aggressive play and PIM due to his increased role on the team.

PMM is saying that after establishing himself as a monster that nobody wants to challenge Breen has started playing smarter. This is what Chara and Larry Robinson and Potvin did..... Breen has not established himself nor is he a monster. If he was he would have been called up 2 years ago when Desbiens, PLL and even Alui were given a look. Even Piskula was given a look ahead of him.

The PMM narrative (taken as gospel by you) is not supported by the stats. Breen has been a low PIM (and I suggest a big passive player) ever since he started playing hockey.

Aggressive players with his size and the ability to skate backwards don't go undrafted. (Kanzig and Chara for example)

If there is a hope for Breen making the NHL it would be the dramatic increase in his willingness to drop his gloves... 7 fights in 60 games.

This once again goes against PMM's importance to the team narrative in that he is taking himself off the ice more leaving his team without him.

If Breen gets a 3-5 game call up with the Flames if he doesn't drop the gloves a couple of times he will not have more than a cup of coffee. If he takes a cross checking penalty or two cleaning out the front of the net it definitely won't be the reason he is sent back to the AHL.

[moon]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If there is a hope for Breen making the NHL it would be the dramatic increase in his willingness to drop his gloves... 7 fights in 60 games.

7 fights in 60 games is lightyears better than Kris Russell who you keep trying to promote, based on his few nothing fights against lightweights, as adding something to the team.

I doubt Breen plays a meaningful role in the NHL but it has 0 to do with how many PIM's he has or doesn't have.

Edit: If he can't clear the net without taking crosschecking penalties it will 100% play a role in why he gets sent down.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If Breen gets a 3-5 game call up with the Flames if he doesn't drop the gloves a couple of times he will not have more than a cup of coffee. If he takes a cross checking penalty or two cleaning out the front of the net it definitely won't be the reason he is sent back to the AHL.

Ok, I'm a little late to the party, but what kind of armchair goof bases his analysis on PIM? Come on kid, you must be playing.

What about a guy like Derek Engelland? Not a star, but plays regular shifts for the Penguins. In 11-12 he played 73 games, 56 penalty minutes, 8 fighting majors (similar to Breen!) which would leave him with 16 penalty minutes over 73 games. He's seen as a pretty tough customer, again, not a great player by any stretch, but an NHL player no less. So how is a "tough guy" a tough guy if he only fights 8 times in a year and racks up 16 penalty minutes? I guess by your logic he's not, even though someone like Dan Bylsma (who is a decent judge of NHL talent eh?) thinks he is. Your comparison between PIM and how a player plays is a complete joke.
You're out to lunch kid.