Summer Prospect Ranking Poll Round 8

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

A center puts him above a little bit but it shouldn't make voting for Agostino laughable at this spot.

Remember that Agostino is almost two years younger (1992 vs 1990) yet their PPG last year was almost identical (1.19 for Knight and 1.11 for Agostino).

I honestly put about equal stock in leading your team to the NCAA Championship compared to being a top 10 finalist for the Hobey Baker, especially since the Hobey Baker is an award that is for Seniors.

The laughable part was Agostino was also picked in round 7, much like Berra was picked in round 4 and Breen picked in round 5. I consider these "outlier" picks. Nothing wrong with them, but certainly not our best prospects, for that round anyway. As Bingo mentioned, there are people who vote in two camps - ceiling vs. likelihood. I think Knight has a higher ceiling than Agostino, simply by virtue of him being a stronger defensive prospect and a center to boot.

I don't doubt the merits of leading a team to a championship, but if we're ranking individual prospects, I prefer to see individual accolades. Michael Leighton led the Philadelphia Flyers to the Stanley Cup finals, but you don't see the Vezina with his name on it. Individual merit is very important in ranking players like this.

[Fire]

I like Knight and I think he's practically guaranteed to a be a full-time NHLer this year but Poirier has the better upside.

I agree that Agostino should be rated similar to Knight.

[Caged Great]

Knight is pretty much a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd line C. Poirier if he doesn't develop as good as he could, he'll be a 3rd liner like Cogliano and Lombardi. Klimchuk at worst would be an inconsistent 3rd line scorer type (Think Stempniak before this year)

Because Knight is on the finishing end of his development path, and looks to be stepping into a semi significant role in a couple months, that should put him slightly ahead of the two guys that are still very raw right now. That's not to say that I wouldn't take Poirier or Klimchuk over Knight if I had to pick only one. In a year from now, likely both of the 1st rounders would be ahead of Knight in terms of overall package plus potential. The gap in the overall game though is enough that Knight should get a sliver of a edge.

And those that are criticizing the fact that Knight was a 5th rounder and acquired for a 4th is because Florida got screwed, and took something rather than the nothing he they were going to get. Knight would've likely signed in Calgary by now if he just went to UFA. If it was for fair value, it would've likely cost the Flames a 2nd rounder for him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I voted Knight but Poirier's stock is rising.

Yeah I still have to stick to Knight but this is too late for both him and Poirier. Sieloff getting ahead of Knight, Poirier, Klimchuk, Granlund is a head scratcher for me but its all opinion. Funny how Granlund was the best performer in the WJHC for the organization and is a forgotten man right now. I have a feeling he's going to be in the NHL sooner than most of the players on this list.

[moon]

At worst a 3rd line scorer like Stempniak? Knight a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd line center?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I certainly didn't mean to imply that people are 'stupid' for having different ranking criteria than I do. Your reasoning all makes sense. I'm just in the camp of 'potential' greatly trumping 'chance of reaching potential' in a prospect ranking exercise.

That's fair (and a better way to say it)

As Bingo mentioned, this really all comes down to the weighting we each pout on the two major variables, potential, and readiness.

For me, potential is the more important, but I need to see some progress as well. Like I said with Poirier, we have a snapshot that he was worthy of being picked 22nd overall. Now I want to see him move forward this year, and if he does, then he is going to move way up in my rankings.

But there are no right answers and I certainly respect that others weight these things differently.

[kermitology]

I wouldn't say that Poirier and Klimchuk are being slighted, just that their development path is much less clear. You probably have a better idea of where a guy like Knight is going to fit in vs those two. I think that plays significantly in peoples decisions.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Not a Klimchuk fan at this point. He's got a lot to prove before I would say he was better than many of the kids we've already drafted and have shown growth in their games. Has an interesting skill set, but I see him more of a Richard Kromm or Wes Walz type of guy. What makes you believe he has something special to be ranked so highly?

I'm no scout I'll tell you that.

But from what I've read, and comments from good friends of mine that know his family he's just one of those can't miss personalities that will do what it takes to succeed at anything he takes on.

Went to the camp and loved his small detail game, he does everything really well.

Add in that he played on a pretty poor team and scouts have remarked he'd light it up with a better team and powerplay and I think he has the package to be a solid top six going forward.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

At least a 2nd round pick for a 23 year old ppg college player?

I hope he turns out to be a stud for us just like everyone else, but suggesting what you just did is delusional IMO.

I don't think it's delusional.

Here are the three picks in the middle of the second round (which I think fairly represents a generic 2nd round pick):

45) Nick Sorenson
46) Gustaf Olofsson
47) Tommy (Gino) Vanelli

I would not trade Knight for any of them. I am always amazed at how highly people value a 2nd round pick vs actual prospects.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by moon

At worst a 3rd line scorer like Stempniak? Knight a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd line center?

Agreed. Our top prospect (Baertschi) is as close to being a lock as a 2nd/3rd line forward next season as there is. If Monahan can lock up the 2nd/3rd line centre position next season, it would be considered a great success for him and probably get him nominated for the Calder. If 24 year old, 5th year pro, former 1st rounder, Mikael Backlund can consistently play on the second line and not look out of place there, I would also consider that a great season for him.

Not saying I don't like Corban Knight, because I do, but you guys need to seriously temper expectations for him. The guy hasn't played a minute of pro hockey yet. He's good, but there are way more players ahead of him right now in our system.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't think it's delusional.

Here are the three picks in the middle of the second round (which I think fairly represents a generic 2nd round pick):

45) Nick Sorenson
46) Gustaf Olofsson
47) Tommy (Gino) Vanelli

I would not trade Knight for any of them. I am always amazed at how highly people value a 2nd round pick vs actual prospects.

I'm going to assume you don't know anything about them though.


Setoguchi only fetched a 2nd rounder this year, and Bolland was had for a 2nd + a couple 4ths.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah I still have to stick to Knight but this is too late for both him and Poirier. Sieloff getting ahead of Knight, Poirier, Klimchuk, Granlund is a head scratcher for me but its all opinion. Funny how Granlund was the best performer in the WJHC for the organization and is a forgotten man right now. I have a feeling he's going to be in the NHL sooner than most of the players on this list.

Think all the talk of him being "not as good as his brother", the "less talented brother" etc cause him to be underrated as a prospect.

He was impressive at the Flames prospect camp and by all accounts had a really strong second half in the SM-Liga once he started playing center again.

Think he will surprise alot of people in Abbotsford this year and will earn a second half call up.

[dammage79]

Knight got my vote again. Perfectly fine with klimchuk and Poirier filling the next couple spots but I'll be voting for granlund. Granlund deserves to be top eleven.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Who the heck keeps picking Agostino? lol

I did this round for the first time in this exercise.

I would say he is has a much higher ceiling than Knight. Much.

His progression from the day he was drafted to where he is now is something that simply cannot be ignored.

Where he was drafted is irrelevant. Its all about what he has accomplished since. Allain has taken that Yale team to places never imagined even 10 years ago, and Agostino has been a major part of that the last 3 seasons.

Besides all that...he is part of the Kent Nilson legacy and someone has to become a star out of that whole deal.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Not saying I don't like Corban Knight, because I do, but you guys need to seriously temper expectations for him. The guy hasn't played a minute of pro hockey yet. He's good, but there are way more players ahead of him right now in our system.

Corban Knight from what scouts have said about him has terrific vision with the puck, great defensively, solid skater, great on the draw, and likes to chirp and aggitate other teams top players. Most even think that he can step into a 3rd line role this year.

This sounds like a Dave Bolland type player to me. If his vision is what the scouts say it is he could easily develop into a Craig Conroy with an edge. I think you a really deminishing how good he was in the NCAA, by far the best amature league.

Another thing I would like to mention is that people are saying knight was a 5th rounder we traded a 4th rounder for him, how is he worth more than the Flames 2 recent first round picks?

Well last I looked Gaudreau was a 4th round selection and is valued heavily over those aforementioned players. I take very little stock in draft position, but rather how they developed. Knight when drafted was playing Jr A in Alberta, in those 4 years of college he developed into a point per game, 2 way center. His draft status should have no bearing on how good of a prospect he is at this point in time.

If draft slot is how you value prospects Jamie Benn would have never made it to the NHL...

[kehatch]

Can we get Knight in there now! I think Sieloff and Wotherspoon went to high personally. I would have had Knight, Poirier, and Klimchuk all in first. Probably Horak as well. But it is nice to have the ability to debate our top 10 prospects for once.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Agreed. Our top prospect (Baertschi) is as close to being a lock as a 2nd/3rd line forward next season as there is. If Monahan can lock up the 2nd/3rd line centre position next season, it would be considered a great success for him and probably get him nominated for the Calder. If 24 year old, 5th year pro, former 1st rounder, Mikael Backlund can consistently play on the second line and not look out of place there, I would also consider that a great season for him.

Not saying I don't like Corban Knight, because I do, but you guys need to seriously temper expectations for him. The guy hasn't played a minute of pro hockey yet. He's good, but there are way more players ahead of him right now in our system.

To be fair most of these guys haven't played a game of NHL hockey yet. Knight is further along then most of them and requires less tempering of expectation.

What I like about Knight isn't his top 6 upside. He has the potential to be a very good defensive C that can drive a checking line. That isn't as flashy as a possible 30 goal scorer. But it arguably helps the team more.

If he never puts up more then a 35 point season in the NHL I will be happy if he can be that defensive C. That said, he has the vision and tool box to put up reasonable points in the NHL. If he can be a 50-point C with that defensive skill set he will be a very valuable player.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kehatch

To be fair most of these guys haven't played a game of NHL hockey yet. Knight is further along then most of them and requires less tempering of expectation.

What I like about Knight isn't his top 6 upside. He has the potential to be a very good defensive C that can drive a checking line. That isn't as flashy as a possible 30 goal scorer. But it arguably helps the team more.

If he never puts up more then a 35 point season in the NHL I will be happy if he can be that defensive C. That said, he has the vision and tool box to put up reasonable points in the NHL. If he can be a 50-point C with that defensive skill set he will be a very valuable player.

That would essentially make him a #1 C in the NHL as far as point production.

Knight may or may not be a decent NHL'er, but it seems there are some pretty heavy expectations from him for not a lot of apparent reasons other than he signed with Calgary and therefore may get a bigger opportunity than he would in other markets.

Personally I dont expect him to amount to a whole lot as a pro, but hope i am dead wrong.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Another thing I would like to mention is that people are saying knight was a 5th rounder we traded a 4th rounder for him, how is he worth more than the Flames 2 recent first round picks?

Well last I looked Gaudreau was a 4th round selection and is valued heavily over those aforementioned players.

Gaudreau climbed the rankings over what he accomplished in the 2 years following his draft year.

Knight and the Flames recent 2 first round picks were acquired 1 month ago. How does a prospect who was acquired with the 97th pick 1 month ago jump ahead of 2 prospects aquired with the 22nd and 28th picks, when none of them have played a single game since then?

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Gaudreau climbed the rankings over what he accomplished in the 2 years following his draft year.

Knight and the Flames recent 2 first round picks were acquired 1 month ago. How does a prospect who was acquired with the 97th pick 1 month ago jump ahead of 2 prospects aquired with the 22nd and 28th picks, when none of them have played a single game since then?

I was comparing Knights draft slot (where he was drafted not the pick that the Flames traded for him).

Gaudreau developed over the last 2 seasons much like Knight has over the last 4 seasons. Not sure how you would say Gaudreau has developed since he was drafted but no give Knight that same credit.

In regards to the compensation given up (a 4th round pick), Flordia was told by Knight that he would not sign with them as he felt he was too far down the depth chart and wanted to play close to home. Flordia either getting nothing for him letting him walk as a free agent (much like Anaheim and Schultz, Wheeler and Phx), asked him where he wanted to play/where he would sign. He said Calgary, thus Calgary had basically already negotiated a contract with him before the trade went through. Florida had no leverage and still got a 4th rounder. Had this been a bidding war I am sure they could have fetched much more compensation for him. Using soley the compensation given up for him, is not a very good way to assess his value as a prospect.