[News] Canucks will retire Bure's number

[Max Cow Disease]

Buggar ruined my first ever hockey game (and planted the seeds of my now flourishing hatred for the Canucks organization). It was that very game in 1994 at which I sat as an incredibly young lad, looking down with the hopeful eyes of a burgeoning Flames fan, bearing witness to the horrific sight of Bure lowering the guillotine's blade in the second OT. It was all the more horrifying to try and shuffle my then midgety body out of the Saddledome amid the maze of drunken, obnoxious Canuck fans blowing those plastic horns and shouting obscenities. Something no child should ever have to live through...

It would also more or less usher in the "dark years". It seemed as though Pavel had singlehandedly banished this team to the flaming bowels of hockey hell for many a year to come. It's one of the reasons I consider my distaste for the Canucks to be quite "organic" in nature. It wasn't a hatred that was taught, it was a hatred that was learned, experienced, and bled.

[Ezio]

great player, but very overrated.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by Ezio

great player, but very overrated.

I guess yeah, if you play 702 games and score 437 goals you are overrated.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Ezio

great player, but very overrated.

The bulk of the hockey world and the Hockey Hall of Fame do not share your opinion.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Ezio

great player, but very overrated.

no

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

the one thing I can never forget about Bure is that elbow on Churla in the playoffs vs Dallas

if that happened today the suspension might be measured in years not games

Hate the canucks.
Churla F*#@ing deserved it.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ezio

great player, but very overrated.

Pavel Bure was one of the most skilled and entertaining players to ever play in the NHL. Retired at the age of 32 just shy of 500 goals, in 702 games. Probably one of the best pure scorers the NHL has ever seen.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Pavel Bure was one of the most skilled and entertaining players to ever play in the NHL. Retired at the age of 32 just shy of 500 goals, in 702 games. Probably one of the best pure scorers the NHL has ever seen.

there is no denying he was skilled and entertaining, but that doesn't mean he wasn't overrated. he is a lot like Kovalchuk, both players got huge ice time minutes (tops in the league, top PP minutes) and were still relatively outshot and outscored while on the ice. with his talents, he could've been a more dynamic 2way winger, but he only played on one end of the ice especially later in his career.

[カナダ人です]

Originally Posted by Ezio

there is no denying he was skilled and entertaining, but that doesn't mean he wasn't overrated. he is a lot like Kovalchuk, both players got huge ice time minutes (tops in the league, top PP minutes) and were still relatively outshot and outscored while on the ice. with his talents, he could've been a more dynamic 2way winger, but he only played on one end of the ice especially later in his career.

Okay, so Pavel Bure was never going to win the Selke, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an extremely rare and talented player.

Also, he wasn't necessarily one-dimensional. Unlike so many other talented players Bure was also a fierce competitor, driven, and literally played on the edge physically. He wouldn't take anyone's #### - not even Canuck management!

In his prime he was the most exciting player in the world, and one of the best goal scorers ever. Over his entire career, Bure averaged 50 goals per 80 games played. How many other players can AVERAGE that many goals a season?

Also keep in mind he had 59 and 58 goals in 99-01. So he was 3 goals away from being a 4-time 60 goal scorer.

There are probably less than 5 better goal scorers IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY better than Bure was. Not overrated.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-players-all-time-goals-per-game-leaders.html

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

Okay, so Pavel Bure was never going to win the Selke, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an extremely rare and talented player.

Of course he was extremely talented and incredibly unique player. He was probably the fastest player of all time and his ability to paint corners with his patented shot off the wing is iconic. I was living in Florida at the time and that was really on display.

Also, he wasn't necessarily one-dimensional. Unlike so many other talented players Bure was also a fierce competitor, driven, and literally played on the edge physically. He wouldn't take anyone's #### - not even Canuck management!

He was definitely not a soft, but he is of the same ilk of Kovalchuk during the Thrashers era. Kovalchuk definitely isn't soft either and I would've taken some other players over him during his heyday with the Thrashers simply based on overall game. The difference between the two is that Kovalchuk really evolved himself to become one of the premier two-way wingers in the league by his 2nd full season with the Devils. He had a positive +/- while playing shorthanded the past 2 seasons!

In his prime he was the most exciting player in the world, and one of the best goal scorers ever. Over his entire career, Bure averaged 50 goals per 80 games played. How many other players can AVERAGE that many goals a season?

There really is no denying that Bure is a good goal scorer, which he really is. But I have a hard time putting him amongst the all-time greats, which he seemingly gets a reputation for when he's only had 5 elite seasons in his career. And I would put it borderline with the Panthers for reasons I've already stated, he played a cherrypicking game near the end of his career.

Also keep in mind he had 59 and 58 goals in 99-01. So he was 3 goals away from being a 4-time 60 goal scorer.

There are probably less than 5 better goal scorers IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY better than Bure was. Not overrated.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-players-all-time-goals-per-game-leaders.html

Like I said, he is a good goal scorer and great player, but I don't feel he is a generational talent or all-time great. I would personally rank current forwards like Iginla and St. Louis ahead of him. People's thoughts on Bure were vastly elevated since he probably had the sexiest hockey tools (speed, bulk, shot, etc) of all time. Perhaps I value longevity.

He may be the purest goal scorer in league history, but talking to some die hard Cancuks fans that are close friends, they are claiming he is better than Ovechkin was/is, which is completely asinine.

And I ask, what makes Bure a much better player than Paul Kariya, who hasn't been getting the same love or HHOF consideration (yet).

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Ezio

great player, but very overrated.

Two 60 goals seasons
Five 50+ goals seasons
Played 65 playoff games for a total of 35G 35A = 70 points
Played with an edge & insane skill.

[d_phaneuf]

he put up those numbers in the dead puck era too

[Hatter]

Deserves the honour. Dude was a hell of a player.

If only we got Pav and Vancouver got Val!

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Deserves the honour. Dude was a hell of a player.

If only we got Pav and Vancouver got Val!

getting Pavel made up for us also getting the wrong Federov and Kariya

[カナダ人です]

Originally Posted by Ezio

He may be the purest goal scorer in league history, but talking to some die hard Cancuks fans that are close friends, they are claiming he is better than Ovechkin was/is, which is completely asinine.

If you think Bure was bad defensively, then Ovechkin is terrible. Bure also led his team to the finals, while OV has yet to get out of the 2nd round. Bure was also a better pure goal scorer than OV, which I guess you already acknowledged.

OV might be better than Bure was overall, but to think otherwise is not "completely asinine".

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

If you think Bure was bad defensively, then Ovechkin is terrible. Bure also led his team to the finals, while OV has yet to get out of the 2nd round. Bure was also a better pure goal scorer than OV, which I guess you already acknowledged.

OV might be better than Bure was overall, but to think otherwise is not "completely asinine".

I remember two Bures - pre-injury and post-injury. Pre-injury, he played a chippy game and played with an edge (how many games would the Churla elbow get now?). But post injury there was something lacking. There wasn't that same excitement in his game and there wasn't the same tenacity.

He was a great player and the best offensive threat that the Canucks have ever had, I am glad that they healed old wounds and he is in the good books with the organization once again.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

If you think Bure was bad defensively, then Ovechkin is terrible. Bure also led his team to the finals, while OV has yet to get out of the 2nd round. Bure was also a better pure goal scorer than OV, which I guess you already acknowledged.

Except Ovechkin has been a top 3 player consistently since he joined the league for nearly a decade now.

Let's break down their top Hart Trophy finishes:

Bure was 3rd, 9th and 12th in his career.
Ovechkin has won 3 Hart Trophies, one runner up to Crosby, a 6th place finish and 15th in his rookie season.

Pavel Bure was never in consideration for being the best player in the world, unlike Ovechkin who has held that title neck and neck with Crosby. Bure wasn't even top 5 during his era.

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

OV might be better than Bure was overall, but to think otherwise is not "completely asinine".

It is, considering Ovechkin has accomplished far more in his career, was a more dominant physical presence and a far better playmaker that greatly elevated the play of his linemates. It was never close, but I have friends still trying to convince me otherwise.

Bure was a helluva talent, but near the end of his career, he cherry picked by the blue line and relied heavily on linemates to get the puck out. To me, that doesn't quantify as exceptional when he can be doing much better like he did earlier in his career. He was a one man army on the Panthers and had the freedom to cherry pick at his hearts delight, thus it's pretty tough to judge him as an all time player. Even while on the PK, his role was to try to create breakaway scoring chance on the ice time he got short handed with the Panthers.

And looking at his goal adjusted ratings sorta skew it because Bure retired before he hit a gradual decline in his game. If you compare Teemu Selanne's goal totals in his first 10 yrs with Bure's,, it is probably very similar. If I recall correctly, Teemu hit the 400g mark by his 700th game. Would you consider him one of the greatest goal scorers of all time?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Deserves the honour. Dude was a hell of a player.

If only we got Pav and Vancouver got Val!

We always get the lame brother.

Bure, Niedermayer, Primeau, you get the idea.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by Locke

We always get the lame brother.

Bure, Niedermayer, Primeau, you get the idea.

Sort of agree, but I liked Valeri Bure during his time year, he does not belong in the same conversation as the other two. He managed to be somewhat productive during his time here, even though most of the team stunk. For a time he was pretty much the only player worth watching on the Flames. He's not Pavel of course, but he had a decent enough career overall.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Pavel Bure was one of the most skilled and entertaining players to ever play in the NHL. Retired at the age of 32 just shy of 500 goals, in 702 games. Probably one of the best pure scorers the NHL has ever seen.

and did all of it at dizzying speed. Crazy fast. The World Junior line of him, Mogilny and Fedorov was ridiculous. You needed a car to keep up with them.