Ongoing Senate scandal

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by fotze

Harper's done in my eyes over this. Greasy sh(thead had me vote for him. Fataer can go die in a fire. Should go to jail (if this is true and is proven obviously).

hahaha. See adscam is just a drop in the bucket to this crapshow. Off to jail you all go.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by fotze

Harper's done in my eyes over this. Greasy sh(thead had me vote for him. Fataer can go die in a fire. Should go to jail (if this is true and is proven obviously).

Even if everything here is true why should harper go to Jail over this.

I just fail to see where the big deal is for the PMO to pay Mike Duffy's bills. The lying and the cover up should cost him politically but in the scale of the liberals loosing a billion dollars and 90k which was not tax payer money I know which I think is the more serious issue.

I hope he resigns before the next election and they bring in new leadership as he has proven he cannot be trusted.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

Even if everything here is true why should harper go to Jail over this.

I just fail to see where the big deal is for the PMO to pay Mike Duffy's bills. The lying and the cover up should cost him politically but in the scale of the liberals loosing a billion dollars and 90k which was not tax payer money I know which I think is the more serious issue.

I hope he resigns before the next election and they bring in new leadership as he has proven he cannot be trusted.

The big deal is that its illegal to just cut a $90k cheque to a person in public office. Then to have it done at your request in order to sweep an issue under the rug is bad enough, but to deny involvement and then be completely involved only adds fuel to the fire. Its a complete train wreck and shows the actions of a power hungry man.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

The big deal is that its illegal to just cut a $90k cheque to a person in public office. Then to have it done at your request in order to sweep an issue under the rug is bad enough, but to deny involvement and then be completely involved only adds fuel to the fire. Its a complete train wreck and shows the actions of a power hungry man.

I supose you can call the senate public office but to me this is significantly different they paying someone money to extract favour from them.

To me the only thing scandalous here is the coverup but it certainly doesnt warrent jail time as was suggested.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

I supose you can call the senate public office but to me this is significantly different they paying someone money to extract favour from them.

To me the only thing scandalous here is the coverup but it certainly doesnt warrent jail time as was suggested.

Well Duffy was in trouble for lying on his expenses. The PMO insisted he repay this and then his Chief of Staff cuts the cheque, all in an attempt to avoid the audit. Its pretty egregious. Does it warrant jail time? I have no idea...Stephen Harper and friends are the guys who are tough on crime.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

hahaha. See adscam is just a drop in the bucket to this crapshow. Off to jail you all go.

Seriously?

In one case we have ad firms billing the government for millions of dollars. Shortly thereafter a representative of the Liberal Party would stop by and collect a big fat envelope of cash as a kick back. This is a blatant theft of taxpayer dollars by the party in power. Unless of course you believe that criminal mastermind Guite was the only one involved

In the other case we have Duffy who monkeyed with his expense account and (allegedly) overcharged the government. Upon finding out about the suspect claims Harper insisted that Duffy pay the money back. They should have just hung Duffy out to dry in the first place instead of trying to keep it quiet. Either way someone from the party in power tried to pay back taxpayer dollars, not steal them.

I'm not a big fan of this whole situation, it's sloppy and looks bad whether the expenses are deemed appropriate or not but how are these two things even comparable?

Harper may be a control freak and he rules with an iron fist but I don't for a second believe that he is corrupt, unlike the last several PM's.

Regardless, this will be the straw that broke the dysfunctional Senate's back. You can be sure that either major reform or abolition, depending on what the Supreme Court rules, will be a major campaign issue in 2015.

[Slava]

^as a CPC supporter you better hope not! If this is a major issue in two years the CPC will get hammered.

Aside from the issues you bring up, the whole idea of trying to blackmail a sitting senator (either do this or you're out) is pretty crazy. I have no idea how you can defend Harper if that kind of tactic is substantiated at all. That of course is on top of him having "nothing to do with this" or "no knowledge" a few months ago and today he is one of three people in the meetings.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

^as a CPC supporter you better hope not! If this is a major issue in two years the CPC will get hammered.

Regardless, I hope it is a major issue and the senate gets a much needed enema. From what I've heard Trudeau wants to keep the senate in place pretty much as is so I guess you are expecting a Mulcair victory. Another Liberal senator is in the news today (if you look hard) for abusing his position so it's not exactly a one party problem.

Originally Posted by Slava

Aside from the issues you bring up, the whole idea of trying to blackmail a sitting senator (either do this or you're out) is pretty crazy.

Out of caucus, not out of the senate. I'm fine with them telling Duffy to wipe up his mess or he can no longer be a member of the party. That's not blackmail, that's regular party politics.

Originally Posted by Slava

I have no idea how you can defend Harper if that kind of tactic is substantiated at all. That of course is on top of him having "nothing to do with this" or "no knowledge" a few months ago and today he is one of three people in the meetings.

I said that I don't like the cover up, they should have just hung Duffy out to dry. Regardless, comparing this to adscam is ridiculous.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Regardless, I hope it is a major issue and the senate gets a much needed enema. From what I've heard Trudeau wants to keep the senate in place pretty much as is so I guess you are expecting a Mulcair victory. Another Liberal senator is in the news today (if you look hard) for abusing his position so it's not exactly a one party problem.


Out of caucus, not out of the senate. I'm fine with them telling Duffy to wipe up his mess or he can no longer be a member of the party. That's not blackmail, that's regular party politics.


I said that I don't like the cover up, they should have just hung Duffy out to dry. Regardless, comparing this to adscam is ridiculous.

Are you fine with them saying act as we want or you lose your seat in the senate?

[Voodooman]

Is it just me, or is the only person involved in this mess with less credibility right now than Stephen Harper Mike Duffy himself?

I think that fat ****er would say anything at this point to save his spot at the trough. I have no doubts that Harper was aware of this issue, and ordered the repayment, but that's about all.

By the time re-election rolls around in 2 years, this will have zero impact on the results. Not only will the goverment refocus public attention, but the truth is that there's currently absolutely zero viable alternatives to Mr. Harper. Does anything truly believe that Mulclair or Justin Trudeau can lead this country?

[Senator Clay Davis]

The fact the Conservatives can't actually balance a budget will have more of an impact on who wins the next election than this. That said this and the other messes the CPC has gotten themselves in to mean the CPC has pretty much a 0% chance of winning anything but a minority and with that they can't slam omnibus bills through and thus they are pretty much impotent at that point.

[Rerun]

Up until now everybody has been carrying on about how Duffy is a liar and thief.

And now all of a sudden he's the poster boy for honesty?

Give me a break.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Up until now everybody has been carrying on about how Duffy is a liar and thief.

And now all of a sudden he's the poster boy for honesty?

Give me a break.

Let me ask you a quick question. Do you believe that the PM told Duffy he has to pay the money back?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Up until now everybody has been carrying on about how Duffy is a liar and thief.

And now all of a sudden he's the poster boy for honesty?

Give me a break.

Keep in mind it is not Duffy's word here, he has emails. So unless you think Duffy will risk jail time for forgery, to clear his name, you can't keep spinning it as his word vs. theirs.

Everything was approved expense wise by the Conservatives. He was following the twisted rules the Cons afforded him as a favour for support. This much is in writing.

When the scandal broke, the Cons tried to sweep under the rug with the payoff, Duffy refused, and he was blackmailed. Again all in email paper trail.

90K or 90M, what does it mater? It speaks to character, which until this point I thought Cons took the moral high ground on? Or is croneyinsm, blackmail, and back scratching only bad when it is at least 7 figures and/or a different ideology?

I guess I am surprised by a political leaning that has long prided itself on a black and white view on everything. Either your good, or your bad, end of story. Now all of a sudden the excuses and minimizing comes out when their guy is doing it.

I am a life long Liberal supporter, but I will tell you this. The Libs deserved what they got after ad scam, I openly welcomed it. Now it's the Cons turn. Although smaller you have to nip anyone in the bud who displays such contempt for a trasparent and open system, regardless of political affiliation.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Seriously?

In one case we have ad firms billing the government for millions of dollars. Shortly thereafter a representative of the Liberal Party would stop by and collect a big fat envelope of cash as a kick back. This is a blatant theft of taxpayer dollars by the party in power. Unless of course you believe that criminal mastermind Guite was the only one involved

In the other case we have Duffy who monkeyed with his expense account and (allegedly) overcharged the government. Upon finding out about the suspect claims Harper insisted that Duffy pay the money back. They should have just hung Duffy out to dry in the first place instead of trying to keep it quiet. Either way someone from the party in power tried to pay back taxpayer dollars, not steal them.

I'm not a big fan of this whole situation, it's sloppy and looks bad whether the expenses are deemed appropriate or not but how are these two things even comparable?

Harper may be a control freak and he rules with an iron fist but I don't for a second believe that he is corrupt, unlike the last several PM's.

Regardless, this will be the straw that broke the dysfunctional Senate's back. You can be sure that either major reform or abolition, depending on what the Supreme Court rules, will be a major campaign issue in 2015.

Blah blah blah. What did Harper run on in his campaigns? Honesty and that other bull crap. You really think Chretien and Paul Martin were corrupt? hhahhaa. Koolaid fed CPC member you are.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Slava

Let me ask you a quick question. Do you believe that the PM told Duffy he has to pay the money back?

Yes. He probably did.

Duffy probably went to Harper to complain about the hard time he was getting over his housing expenses and Harper most likely told Duffy that he was being dishonest in claiming what he did and he had to pay the money back.

Duffy then went to Nigel Wright, Harper's Chief of Staff, complaining that he didn't have the $90,000 to pay back and Wright loaned (out of his own pocket) Duffy the $90,000

End of story... Duffy made a big mistake in trying to cheat the taxpayers out of $90,000 and Wright was embarrassed by what Duffy did and tried to help Duffy fix it asap.

Its not like this is adscam where millions were stolen. Duffy cheated on his expense account and embarrassed the government and Wright tried to fix it because Duffy is stupid.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yes. He probably did.

Duffy probably went to Harper to complain about the hard time he was getting over his housing expenses and Harper most likely told Duffy that he was being dishonest in claiming what he did and he had to pay the money back.

Duffy then went to Nigel Wright, Harper's Chief of Staff, complaining that he didn't have the $90,000 to pay back and Wright loaned (out of his own pocket) Duffy the $90,000

End of story... Duffy made a big mistake in trying to cheat the taxpayers out of $90,000 and Wright was embarrassed by what Duffy did and tried to help Duffy fix it asap.

Its not like this is adscam where millions were stolen. Duffy cheated on his expense account and embarrassed the government and Wright tried to fix it because Duffy is stupid.

So if our PM is a liar that is no big deal and end of story? Because Harper has always denied ever knowing about the $90k kickback. Duffy has a paper trail and i don't think he has the mental capacity of forging it.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yes. He probably did.

Duffy probably went to Harper to complain about the hard time he was getting over his housing expenses and Harper most likely told Duffy that he was being dishonest in claiming what he did and he had to pay the money back.

Duffy then went to Nigel Wright, Harper's Chief of Staff, complaining that he didn't have the $90,000 to pay back and Wright loaned (out of his own pocket) Duffy the $90,000

End of story... Duffy made a big mistake in trying to cheat the taxpayers out of $90,000 and Wright was embarrassed by what Duffy did and tried to help Duffy fix it asap.

Its not like this is adscam where millions were stolen. Duffy cheated on his expense account and embarrassed the government and Wright tried to fix it because Duffy is stupid.

Perfect, now hold that thought. Harper claims he had no idea about this from the beginning. We both think he lied, so we're on the same page.

The rest of your version is basically made-up and not at all what Duffy claims, but even so: The bottom line is Harper was lying and trying to cover the whole thing up. That's enough for me.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

So if our PM is a liar that is no big deal and end of story? Because Harper has always denied ever knowing about the $90k kickback. Duffy has a paper trail and i don't think he has the mental capacity of forging it.

He's never denied knowing that Duffy cheated. Duffy admitted to Harper that he did... well actually he didn't admit he cheated (and to this day he still doesn't) but Harper knew he did. Harper just denies knowing that Wright gave Duffy the $90,000 to pay back what he stole. Wright says he never told Harper and I believe him.

Just because Duffy is a liar and a thief doesn't automatically make Harper one.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Slava

Perfect, now hold that thought. Harper claims he had no idea about this from the beginning. We both think he lied, so we're on the same page.

The rest of your version is basically made-up and not at all what Duffy claims, but even so: The bottom line is Harper was lying and trying to cover the whole thing up. That's enough for me.

So you're saying that Harper knew that Duffy cheated on his expenses before the ***t hit the fan? Just trying to get your definition of the "beginning".