Do you always pay your bills?

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sorry, but with this I disagree. If the work was completed within a month, that is acceptable from what I've experienced. If you don't like the work after it has been completed, you have the right to compensation if the company agrees, but you do not have the right to just not pay the rest.

The company should make an effort to reach out and figure out what to do with the outstanding balance. If they do not agree to compensation, you should pay your bill.

The fact that you weren't happy with the work done doesn't invalidate the contract you signed with them.

So you think me having to go buy another fridge is reasonable? Or being without a fridge is reasonable?

And me not liking the work gives me the absolute right not to pay my outstanding balance. If it was just scratches I would agree but me having to buy a new fridge is a pretty big deal.

The "contract" stated a 36" width for the fridge. They made it 34", so they didn't live up to the contract.

[Inferno099]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

You need a judgement to file a lien but you can file a certificate of Lis pendens without the judgement.
It is a document indivating pending legislation and is registered against the property that you performed the work for.
They are unable to sell their house while it exists without putting up a bond against the potential settlement and you have a certain amount of time to initiate legal proceedings.

It would probably do a great job to scare the occupant and you might be able to get a settlement that way.

Disclaimer that I am not a lawyer and you should probably consult a lawyer about the process.

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Not true. A lien is filed by registering a Statement of Lien at Land Titles. Judgment happens much later, if at all. In fact, if you file a lien you have up to 180 days to commence your court action and file a CLP from the date you file your lien, (or less if the homeowner serves you with a notice to prove lien).

Just want to clear up any confusion. A lien would be a reasonable course of action for the OP as long as they're prepared to take that step within 45 days of substantially completing the project, after which it's too late. Liens drastically improve your chances of collecting if you happen to be in an industry where you can take advantage of them. (Mostly home contractors, mechanics and lawyers, although mechanics and solicitors liens are possessory rather than registration liens.)

We had a lien placed on our home even though we paid the the general contractor (GC) in full however they had not paid the flooring company while things were still being worked on for the floor near the end of our 3-4 month basement development that extended to close to 9 months due to multiple things not being done correctly. In this case because how long things extended the flooring collection team went ahead to land titles & had lien put on even though their own staff confirmed our home was still in progress..... can tell you that whole situation ticked off my wife & I one day getting this lien in the mail & neither the GC or other company to let us know there was a situation between them. Lien was resolved, but not without one angry customer letting both the GC & other company know our thoughts about the extra time wasted by me getting things sorted out between them.

In our renovation we paid the GC on the dates agreed upon in the contract & the last remaining 10% to the GC on day before the trades were going to be fixing final things as this continued to extend so long. We've basically given up that the GC will ever take time to make things the way they should be or even check on the subs work for quality control; so as we paid everything in full... last thing we could hold back was not providing the GC pictures of the 'completed' development they wanted to use to show prospective customers.

If I ever do any future renovations though, that final amount stated in the contract will not get paid until things are done right & correctly... and that is due to our experience with the renovation we went through in 2012. One last comment, even though we had the GC, throughout the project i felt as I was the GC, directing the sub trades as they often did not seem to know what needed to be done.

[AMG_G]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

So you think me having to go buy another fridge is reasonable? Or being without a fridge is reasonable?

And me not liking the work gives me the absolute right not to pay my outstanding balance. If it was just scratches I would agree but me having to buy a new fridge is a pretty big deal.

The "contract" stated a 36" width for the fridge. They made it 34", so they didn't live up to the contract.

So no tip?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

So you think me having to go buy another fridge is reasonable? Or being without a fridge is reasonable?

And me not liking the work gives me the absolute right not to pay my outstanding balance. If it was just scratches I would agree but me having to buy a new fridge is a pretty big deal.

The "contract" stated a 36" width for the fridge. They made it 34", so they didn't live up to the contract.

You have the right to be compensated for having to buy a new fridge. You do not have the right to just ignore the rest of the bill.

The company should reach out to you for the remaining amount, and at that time you should explain your situation.

But simply ignoring the remaining amount even if they do contact you about final payment? I don't agree with that.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Azure

The problem is not all of these people are what you would call 'deadbeat tenants.' Out of all the customers that owe us money, there are maybe 4 that we know there is chance of getting final payment. Luckily they don't owe more than a couple thousand dollars.

How hard is it to do a credit check? How does this affect the relationship you have with your clients?

The escrow service is an interesting idea.

Yeah it's funny, landlord tenant stuff definitely goes both ways. I've acted for both, and been a tenant myself.

I've had a total of six landlords in my life personally. Two were large property management firms, four were private individuals. Of the private individuals, 3 of the 4 screwed me in some fashion or another. (One sold the property and tried to kick me out a month after I signed a one-year lease, one refused to deal with an upstairs tenant who let their dogs crap all over the shared yard, and the most recent one who has bounced my security deposit refund cheque forcing me to chase the moron through small-claims). I swear that there seem to be just as many bad Landlords as there are bad Tenants.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Inferno099

We had a lien placed on our home even though we paid the the general contractor (GC) in full however they had not paid the flooring company while things were still being worked on for the floor near the end of our 3-4 month basement development that extended to close to 9 months due to multiple things not being done correctly. In this case because how long things extended the flooring collection team went ahead to land titles & had lien put on even though their own staff confirmed our home was still in progress..... can tell you that whole situation ticked off my wife & I one day getting this lien in the mail & neither the GC or other company to let us know there was a situation between them. Lien was resolved, but not without one angry customer letting both the GC & other company know our thoughts about the extra time wasted by me getting things sorted out between them.

In our renovation we paid the GC on the dates agreed upon in the contract & the last remaining 10% to the GC on day before the trades were going to be fixing final things as this continued to extend so long. We've basically given up that the GC will ever take time to make things the way they should be or even check on the subs work for quality control; so as we paid everything in full... last thing we could hold back was not providing the GC pictures of the 'completed' development they wanted to use to show prospective customers.

If I ever do any future renovations though, that final amount stated in the contract will not get paid until things are done right & correctly... and that is due to our experience with the renovation we went through in 2012. One last comment, even though we had the GC, throughout the project i felt as I was the GC, directing the sub trades as they often did not seem to know what needed to be done.

FYI, when dealing with a contractor, you should be withholding 10% from each payment in order to comply with the builder's lien act. Then if a lien gets filed in the lien period you can pay the money into court and get rid of the lien. If you are not holding back 10 percent from each payment and releasing only after the lien periods expire, you could be reposnible to pay out sub-contractors even though you've paid the GC in full. I will agree that it's a pain as a homeowner to have to deal with any of this stuff, but it's a system created to protect the trades from crappy contractors and minimize the homeowener's risk as long as the homeowner follows the rules, so it's what we've got to deal with.

[You Need a Thneed]

We generally don't pay our large subcontract bills until we get paid for our work, which is often 2-3 months after the work is done.

We don't pay subcontract holdback until we get our holdback money to pay them with.

It sucks for some of the contractors, but that's the way it works. It sucks most for the subcontractors that do all of their work at the start of the project sometimes, as they might have to wait 6-12 months for their holdback.

[Azure]

I wasn't aware of that, and I doubt most homeowners are.

Lets say we progress the situation a bit. Take someone to small claims court. Judge orders them to pay the amount owed. Whose to say that they will? Who will force them to do so? What will happen if they don't?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

We generally don't pay our large subcontract bills until we get paid for our work, which is often 2-3 months after the work is done.

We don't pay subcontract holdback until we get our holdback money to pay them with.

It sucks for some of the contractors, but that's the way it works. It sucks most for the subcontractors that do all of their work at the start of the project sometimes, as they might have to wait 6-12 months for their holdback.

How hard is it to get an operating loan? For contractors that don't have adequate cash flow, this creates a huge problem.

I understand why it is happening, but surely there has to be something better.

We purchase materials for jobs up to 6 months in advance too. Except we can't delay paying our bills that long, otherwise the supplier cuts us off.

[onetwo_threefour]

^ That's right, the way the current system works, the GC should be paying suppliers and trades in full and carrying the holdback itself, You don't do holdbacks from your suppliers or trades because then they'll just file liens (and rightfully so). The idea is that the contractor should be building in its carrying costs on the 10% holdback in their contract with the property owner then funding the shortfall from the operatiing line. That way the subs and suppliers get paid, the homeowner isn't at risk and nobody has to worry about liens getting filed.

One could argue that if you're dealing with a contractor that can't carry the 10% from start to finish on the project, they're not very financially healthy and you should think twice.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Azure

I wasn't aware of that, and I doubt most homeowners are.

Lets say we progress the situation a bit. Take someone to small claims court. Judge orders them to pay the amount owed. Whose to say that they will? Who will force them to do so? What will happen if they don't?

Once you get a judgment, all reasonable recovery costs are 100% recoverable. So you go hire a bailiff company to start seizing assets, garnisheeing contract and registering your judgment every where you can. The bailiff's cost get added to the judgment and you keep them going at it as long as you think there's money to be found. Your big risk at this point is that they're juudgment-proof, noo assets, declare bankruptcy etc.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

We generally don't pay our large subcontract bills until we get paid for our work, which is often 2-3 months after the work is done.

We don't pay subcontract holdback until we get our holdback money to pay them with.

It sucks for some of the contractors, but that's the way it works. It sucks most for the subcontractors that do all of their work at the start of the project sometimes, as they might have to wait 6-12 months for their holdback.

I can tell you that as a supplier this really pisses us off. It all flows downhill and the guy at the end ie. suppliers, get stuck carrying the end bill for months on end

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by return to the red

I can tell you that as a supplier this really pisses us off. It all flows downhill and the guy at the end ie. suppliers, get stuck carrying the end bill for months on end

Generally, our suppliers get paid on time. We have good relationships with our suppliers, and have been using them for years. The ones we know that have smaller cash flows I will sometimes pay well before a month.

Also, trades will only get paid the approved amount on a progress claim. If a trade invoices for $35k, but only $25k gets approved on the PC, the trade will only be getting $25k.

[Azure]

Lots of good answers here.

What is the best way to go about collecting money from work that has been done in the past where people aren't paying. Is there a better way that going to small claims court? Talking about jobs 6 months and older.