The draft lottery is still a joke

[#-3]

Originally Posted by neo45

No, not every non-play off team should have equal odds. That ruins the point of the draft completely. NHL has great parity right now and it shouldn't be messed with too much


They should have a lottery for EACH of the top 5 picks, so even finishing last would only guarantee the 6th pick. Fixes the tanking problem but also guarantees that bad teams get high picks, which is the point

I love this theory, I've always hated that their is only one lotto.

last place has a 75% chance of 1st,

Assuming they win the first lottery. Every other team should go back in the draw and have a 4x better chance of getting 2nd, then they had at 1st.

If last place doesn't win the first lottery, they would then have about an 80% chance of getting second. If they lost again about an 85% chance of 3rd.......

[sun]

What about ordering the draft based on the pre-deadline standings? Does that make sense?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by neo45

No, not every non-play off team should have equal odds. That ruins the point of the draft completely. NHL has great parity right now and it shouldn't be messed with too much


They should have a lottery for EACH of the top 5 picks, so even finishing last would only guarantee the 6th pick. Fixes the tanking problem but also guarantees that bad teams get high picks, which is the point

There is no evidence at all that the draft lottery or draft in general creates parity. It existed for years without parity. Parity wasn't achieved until the cap and lower UFA age was brought in. If anything, teams that are perpetually bad take the best prospects and ruin them.

The draft lottery system is nothing more than a system for consoling fans of terrible teams (which may be a positive thing in its own right).

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I liked the Fan 960 idea this morning to be honest.

The idea I think is this once a team is mathematically elimanted from the playoffs. Then the team with the most points accumulated between then and the end of the season gets the first pick and so on down the line.

For Example:

If Columbus were eliminated from the playoffs on game 60 then they would have game 61 - 82 to try and accumulate the most amount of points possible. Let's say that is 10 points.

If Edmonton were eliminated from the playoffs on game 72. Then they would have game 73 - 82 to try and accumulate the most amount of points possible. Let's say 5 points and came in 4th.

In this example Columbus picks first and then Team 2, Team 3, and then Edmonth 4th.

This would prevent the tanking theory, but it would still bring fans to the rink trying to cheer their team onto victory.

Also, I'd stop being a fan of the Edmonton Oilers, Carolina Hurricanes, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers, Colorado Avalanche, Nashville Predators. It's too hard cheering for all these teams to win.

So in this example of yours, CBJ had 22 games and picked up 10 points (Win % of 22.7%).
Edm has 10 games and picked up 4 points (Win% of 20%). In this example your win% work out.

But lets say CBJ picks up 6 points in those 22 games, (win % of 14%), but they have 2 more points then Edm so they'll pick higher?

I agree with some of the other ppl, get too complicated. Maybe just take 12 games of the year for teams that didn't make the playoffs and rank them, highest point gets the top pick and lowest point get pick 14th.

[Ashasx]

I think a panel of knowledgeable hockey experts (ie, me) should choose the team which needs the 1st pick the most. This can be any non-playoff team. Only one team gets picked, everyone else stays the same.

This can be based off a number of things things, such as organization prospect depth, team depth (no team with Landeskog, Duchene, Stastny, etc. should get a top 5 pick), previous 1st overall picks, and a refusal to tank.

Therefore, I choose the Flames to pick 1st overall.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think a panel of knowledgeable hockey experts (ie, me) should choose the team which needs the 1st pick the most. This can be any non-playoff team. Only one team gets picked, everyone else stays the same.

This can be based off of things like organization prospect depth, previous 1st overall picks, and a refusal to tank.

LOL.

That is all.

Edit: thought you were serious. N/m.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Not draft order, only first round order.
A pingpong ball decides now, and solely did with Sidney Crosby. Yes granted, with some criteria.
Anyway... I'll let this go now. It is a bit too far out there.

But I'm all for something that protects the integrity of the game... so we don't see what we are seeing now. It's brutal

I agree far too fetched and plus it is the Fan 960's idea.

However, teams that tank early so they will have more chances. They can only tank for so long before they better shape up and fly right. Atleast they can't just toss in the towel for the entire rest of the season.

I would also suggest that hockey players don't tank and it hasn't mattered what league or level of hockey I've played. Just take a look at any local beer league or shinny game anyone of you has played. It doesn't matter if you play in the NHL or not, hockey players of every level when they take to the ice want to win. I swear most nights that most hockey players thought Jay Feaster was sitting in the stands at 11:30pm to scout the Next One that Daryll must've missed.

I truly don't believe for this reason any hockey player of any guild is tanking. Most of management and coaches as well have played the game and for the same reasons as the players aren't truly tanking. They might be checking out development progress or have injuries. Anyways that's just me and I digress.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I have another idea which may sound farfetched but I think would make for VERY exciting hockey. What if the draft order was penciled in at the trade deadline. Whoever is in last by the deadline gets the most ping pong balls to draft 1st overall.

But wait! Non-playoff teams get more ping pong balls to increase there chances depending on how many more wins than losses came after the deadline. e.g with a record of 10-5-2 the team will get an extra 6 balls. So essentially you would have all the bottom teams doing their best to win in order to gain more ping pong balls.

This is something that would be more difficult to follow, but can easily be tracked and I think would reduce tanking greatly (apart from trying to tank pre-deadline, but this doesn't happen often unless you're the oilers).

What do you guys think? I'm smrt right?

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

So in this example of yours, CBJ had 22 games and picked up 10 points (Win % of 22.7%).
Edm has 10 games and picked up 4 points (Win% of 20%). In this example your win% work out.

But lets say CBJ picks up 6 points in those 22 games, (win % of 14%), but they have 2 more points then Edm so they'll pick higher?

I agree with some of the other ppl, get too complicated. Maybe just take 12 games of the year for teams that didn't make the playoffs and rank them, highest point gets the top pick and lowest point get pick 14th.

In my example and yes your example Columbus would pick higher than Edmonton. But they truly weren't better than Edmonton anyways. I mean the incentive was to try and win. I was just throwing out the numbers by the way I wasn't doing the math to make the example better or worse.

Way too far fetched, but I thought it was a good idea is all.

[Five-hole]

The solution is to seed picks 1-14 with the same odds, IMO (for the first round). That would make the draft lottery pretty exciting and it certainly de-emphasizes tanking, at least somewhat.

[Northendzone]

if stempniak does not play for the rest of the seaosn, it will negatively effect his chances of being the NHL14 cover boy

[Kaine]

I still think something simple like every non playoff team gets 1 ball, since we have to add an "oilers clause" if you were selected top 3 the previous year, your teams ball is not added to the mix until after the first 3 picks have been selected, this would prevent one or a number of teams lucking out and getting multiple top picks year after year.

Not perfect, but it keeps it fair for all non playoff teams and prevents tanking as standings will have no effect on the outcome. It's simple and a heck of a lot better than the current system although I suspect a better system could be devised without much effort.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

The solution is to seed picks 1-14 with the same odds, IMO (for the first round). That would make the draft lottery pretty exciting and it certainly de-emphasizes tanking, at least somewhat.

I don't think that would ever happen but if it did I can guarantee that would be the season the Flames finally finish 30th.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There is no evidence at all that the draft lottery or draft in general creates parity. It existed for years without parity. Parity wasn't achieved until the cap and lower UFA age was brought in. If anything, teams that are perpetually bad take the best prospects and ruin them.

The draft lottery system is nothing more than a system for consoling fans of terrible teams (which may be a positive thing in its own right).

Disagree. The evidence is in comparing leagues that have drafts to leagues that don't (most Soccer leagues). Far more parity exists in the North American sports that have lotteries as compared to the leagues that have no such mechanism.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Most of management and coaches as well have played the game and for the same reasons as the players aren't truly tanking. They might be checking out development progress or have injuries.

When eliminated from playoffs, of course you mix some prospects in. And sit down guys who are injured, etc.
But would either the Flames or the Preds management be icing anywhere close to these lineups if winning was important?
Not on your life. But you use the rules in place and manage accordingly.
And speaking of rules, aren't there certain rules about the makeup of the lineup you can ice in preseason games? I doubt this lineup would meet minimum pre-season requirements

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Take a look at the two lineups the Flames and Predators are showcasing thonight and try to come up with an educated reason they are not tanking to get a higher pick in July. The talent evaluation angle works to an extent but you can't sugar coat what his happening here. I want one of these high and mighty posters that like to make these high on the horse posts berating others for having a different opinion and simply observing what has transpired over the past few weeks in the NHL. Please explain to the peasants your vast knowledge of how the NHL works because I have news for you. Tanking is real.

Ummmm, they've been winning. Defeats the tanking argument 100%.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Any team eliminated from the playoffs still has an obligation to do its best in games that still matter for playoff races.

Given this is a completely meaningless game for the playoffs I think the Flames can do whatever they want. Unless there are some rules in the CBA that I'm not aware of.

If the league really wanted to take away any incentive for tanking they'd have a better lottery system as has been covered here.

[Pacem]

I see why it might be ok for them to be scratching vets in a game against the Preds because it has no effect on a teams playoff position. This should not happen in the St. Louis game, as a perceived gifted win could change playoff position. Against Chicago, scratching again follows the same thought process as the Nashville game.

I don't agree with what they are doing. I think you should ice the best line up at all times in order to win. The Flames management team can hide behind the umbrella of "we are evaluating our young talent." They have been wining, so its hard to prove they are tanking. I think what the Flames are doing is bush league crap tho. That is what you get when you have a moron running the show.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I liked the Fan 960 idea this morning to be honest.

The idea I think is this once a team is mathematically elimanted from the playoffs. Then the team with the most points accumulated between then and the end of the season gets the first pick and so on down the line.

For Example:

If Columbus were eliminated from the playoffs on game 60 then they would have game 61 - 82 to try and accumulate the most amount of points possible. Let's say that is 10 points.

If Edmonton were eliminated from the playoffs on game 72. Then they would have game 73 - 82 to try and accumulate the most amount of points possible. Let's say 5 points and came in 4th.

In this example Columbus picks first and then Team 2, Team 3, and then Edmonth 4th.

This would prevent the tanking theory, but it would still bring fans to the rink trying to cheer their team onto victory.

Also, I'd stop being a fan of the Edmonton Oilers, Carolina Hurricanes, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers, Colorado Avalanche, Nashville Predators. It's too hard cheering for all these teams to win.

Have to say that I quite like this idea.

The only thing is, it would have an interesting effect on how the trading deadline works.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

When eliminated from playoffs, of course you mix some prospects in. And sit down guys who are injured, etc.
But would either the Flames or the Preds management be icing anywhere close to these lineups if winning was important?
Not on your life. But you use the rules in place and manage accordingly.
And speaking of rules, aren't there certain rules about the makeup of the lineup you can ice in preseason games? I doubt this lineup would meet minimum pre-season requirements

I have no idea, maybe I just believe in the spirit of the game too much that I'm blind.

However, given the Fan 960 idea and let's say the far fetched idea became reality. I would bet both teams wouldn't be icing the team's they are tonight. So again maybe I'm blind, but I'm happy believing that we aren't tanking on purpose or any team is for that matter.