#34 Jersey retirement

[CaramonLS]

King specifically said no more retirements. This was when they FOF'd MacInnis.

If they do retire anyone else it will be a massive slap in the face to #2. Complete crap.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by moon

Slightly OT but since retiring/forever a flames etc. is done in large part for the the fans and it seems nobody likes the program and many think it is a bad/stupid idea why do they have the Forever a Flame program? Has King or anyone addressed it other than the PR BS when it was started?

The general speculation over time (at least here) was that MacInnis was reluctant to have his number retired for one team while working for another. Particularly since he has long since moved on from Calgary and is now a St. Louis guy through and through. This may have been a happy medium from that perspective, while also allowing the team to honour guys like Nieuwendyk and Fleury, the latter escaping the baggage he carries.

I've no problem with the idea of making a distinction between honouring and retiring a number. But "Forever a Flames" and "Forever a Roughneck" are just lame. Find a title that isn't so silly.

[#-3]

I think that #14 & #34 need to be honoured in the Forever a Flame at least. I would be OK if they are retired, but I think Honoured is the minimum.

#12 I would be upset if he is only honoured, 12 should never been used again, it needs to be retired.

I think for me the biggest difference was.

#12, 16 season
#14, 11 seasons
#34, 9 seasons

But I also think that the outgoing nature and lack of personal issues both help.

Kipper being so quite, and leaving town so quickly after the seasons. And Theo's well documented exploites, make me OK with them only being Honoured.

Edit:

^
I also remember Kerr mentioning about a year in advance of the the FaF program, that Mc had rejected offers from the Flames to retire #2, because of his deep ties to StL. I think management may not have wanted to start adressing the 90's & 20's (14, 34, 12) until they had adressed the 80's (2, 25, 39?). So they created this to bridge some of the bad history with first two.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The general speculation over time (at least here) was that MacInnis was reluctant to have his number retired for one team while working for another. Particularly since he has long since moved on from Calgary and is now a St. Louis guy through and through. This may have been a happy medium from that perspective, while also allowing the team to honour guys like Nieuwendyk and Fleury, the latter escaping the baggage he carries.

I've no problem with the idea of making a distinction between honouring and retiring a number. But "Forever a Flames" and "Forever a Roughneck" are just lame. Find a title that isn't so silly.

Okay so does that mean they will retire guys in the future then?

I have no issue if they want to have two tiers but to put everyone in the "Forever a Flame" category (which is what I thought they were doing now) is a bad idea in my view.

If it is a two tier system with guys being retired and others being in the Forever a Flame thing then I am fine with that. Outside of the name which I agree sounds very weak/bushleague.

[Resolute 14]

Sorry, no. I was speaking from my own POV on making distinctions. The Flames have said there will be no more jersey retirements, just this honour program. But as a practical matter, it makes no difference. Nobody will wear 12 ever again.

[JohnnyB]

Kipper should have his number retired, and I think a decision to do so will just look better with time. He played his whole career as a Flame and chose to retire with the Flames and play his last games I front of the fans over being traded for a last shot at the cup. Iginla on the other hand could well end up having a cup or two somewhere else and several more years of rewriting his legacy before retirement that will make him much less a Flame.

[jlh2640]

No one should ever wear #12, 34, 14, 25 ever again. I would even make an argument on #28 even though his stats dont ever show his true value when he was healthy.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

No one should ever wear #12, 34, 14, 25 ever again. I would even make an argument on #28 even though his stats dont ever show his true value when he was healthy.

Robyn Regehr will never and should never get his number retired, at his best he was a #2/3 defenseman... As for Darren McCarty I don't think he stands much of a chance either.

[Neeper]

I don't think a poll is needed. This is Kipper we are talking about. Can't wait to be there when it happens. I don't look forward to life without Kipper. We've been so spoiled!

[pylon]

I fully support the retirement of Jamie Macouns jersey.

Solid 3-4 d-man. Solid.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by pylon

I fully support the retirement of Jamie Macouns jersey.

Solid 3-4 d-man. Solid.

Exactly. 2 Cups, here and in Detroit. Plus was a key contributor in the 93 Leafs team that got close to going to the finals, not to mention punching Gretzky in the ear during a scrum.

[EldrickOnIce]

Without question best Flames goalie so far.

But I guess I'm alone in saying no to retiring #34
Hall of fame type career? No
Associated with championships won? No
Face of franchise? No

Then no

[calgaryred]

#34 Kipper
#14 Fleury
#12 Iginla all should be retired

#12 Loob
#25 Nieuwendyk
#10 Roberts
#20 Suter all should be honored

[DeluxeMoustache]

Career accomplishments to date are impressive, despite not having a cup.

He did set the modern day record for GAA in 2006 along with his Vezina.

He is one of only 27 goalies with over 300 wins, and is the only Finnish netminder in that list.

He also won more games between 2004 and 2013 than any goalie. Being the winningest goalie for a decade must have some merit.

Also when you look at the list of 300 game winners, his ratio of games won to games played is about 6th I believe. Not too shabby considering two guys ahead of him are Moog and Osgood, who had some much better teams in front of them.

Maybe a stretch for HOF but certainly he is in a conversation with some very impressive netminders.

I'd like to see 3 more years, his next year under contract plus another couple to see how far he can move up the all time list.

[Clever_Iggy]

The honor program is really really stupid. Especially since the Flames have already retired 2 numbers. Honored numbers won't be worn again, but technically they can be because they aren't retired?

I generally support the Flames brass, but this program and the fact that #12, #14 and #34 will at best be honored with the ridiculous banner that has the player in the background, is terrible.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Sakari

Are you suggesting that Kipper isn't a hall of fame player? He's 23rd in all time wins playing for what has been nothing better than a mediocre hockey club since his Vezina winning season.Which was his 2nd season as a flame. He's been worked the most out of any goaltender in the past 10 years, and he's got a .912 save percentage to go with it. This is ALL keeping in mind that he wasn't a starting goaltender until he started playing with the Flames, when he was what, maybe 28, 29? If he had been afforded the opportunity to play with teams like the Penguins or the Red Wings or the Devils for 20 years, he'd be going in the hall of fame before Iginla. But he didn't, so it doesn't really count. But my point remains. No goalie has carried a team quite like Kipper did, and he's got a couple shiny trophies to show just how good a job he did.

He's no hall of fame goalie. Awesome career though.

[#-3]

While we are complaining about this retirement thing, I have another old bone to pick.

We all loved the look of the Lanny banner, it was for a jersey retirement, it had a jersey on it. It was perfect, it was there since I can remember, it looked great.

We all hated the Vernon banner, it was to big and look stupid, and didn't match.

So there solution was to take down the Lanny banner we loved and put up a crappy ugly MikeV style banner in its place?

WTF.


I want to old Lanny Banner back, I want the MikeV banner re-done simular to the old style Lanny banner. When Jaromes number is retired (which it better be retired and not FaF), I want it to look simular but with an '04 jersey rather than an 80's jersey.

And since this thread is about Kipper, I am OK with him being retired or Forever a Flame, one or the other. But if it is retirement, it too should look like the old Lanny banner maybe with the '07 jersey.

I am ok with the Forever a Flame banners being an image of the player. As they are honouring the player, not retuiring the jersey.

[cgy2london]

the seasons not even over?

[Igottago]

34 and 12 should be retired without question IMO.

As for the "forever a flame" distinction, I think its okay too. Why not have two tiers of honouring a player? I think retiring should be reserved for the true icons -- legends of the franchise that achieved most of their career accolades with the Flames and spent significant years here. Forever a Flame for the guys who made solid contributions but still had a story to tell for other franchises. Might be a blurry line sometimes but that's ok.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Sakari

Are you suggesting that Kipper isn't a hall of fame player? He's 23rd in all time wins playing for what has been nothing better than a mediocre hockey club since his Vezina winning season.Which was his 2nd season as a flame. He's been worked the most out of any goaltender in the past 10 years, and he's got a .912 save percentage to go with it. This is ALL keeping in mind that he wasn't a starting goaltender until he started playing with the Flames, when he was what, maybe 28, 29? If he had been afforded the opportunity to play with teams like the Penguins or the Red Wings or the Devils for 20 years, he'd be going in the hall of fame before Iginla. But he didn't, so it doesn't really count. But my point remains. No goalie has carried a team quite like Kipper did, and he's got a couple shiny trophies to show just how good a job he did.

Roy, Hasek and Brodeur are the first three that come to mind when thinking about this statement.

Kiprusoff is in the same class as John Vanbiesbrouck, Mike Richter, Andy Moog and Tom Barrasso... good but not hall of fame good.