Flames Goaltending

[manilow78]

OK Calgary! Lets ante up! I for one do not want to go into a rebuild year with the European Mystery Tandem! Rambo and the Swiss Miss don't do it for me. Bernier is the guy we need. Whatever it takes and please don't tell me that anyone but Feaster and King see Glencross and Gio as untouchables. That's just ridiculous. No one on this team has shown with their play this year that they are blue chip building blocks of the future Flames. START WITH THE BEST GOALIE AVAILABLE AND MOVE OUTWARD FROM THERE!!!!

[robertsfan]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I hope Danny Taylor gets a legitimate shot to make the Flames next year. I heard a story that he went up to Hartley before the Canucks game and said something along the lines of, "Coach, this may be my last opportunity to ever play in the NHL for the rest of my life. Start me tonight. I can get you that win." He got he Flames that win.

I liked Danny Taylor in his last start as well. Thought he looked better than Macdonald. Wish we could've seen more of him.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

My only request for the goaltending situation: do not re-sign MacDonald.

I've nothing against they guy, but we're rebuilding and we know he's not part of the long term solution. So we should just take our lumps and test out the other goalies. The organization gains nothing by giving him games.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

No thanks to what? Giving him a legitimate chance to earn a spot on the team?

He was awful in his time up here and already had a legitimate chance to earn a spot and showed he wasn't close to ready/able.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

My only request for the goaltending situation: do not re-sign MacDonald.

I've nothing against they guy, but we're rebuilding and we know he's not part of the long term solution. So we should just take our lumps and test out the other goalies. The organization gains nothing by giving him games.

Sorry, can't agree with this. That means to start next year we would have a total of 50 games of NHL experience in net. You bring MacDonald back if only for the reason of having a guy who is NHL tested and experienced. He's played pretty well for us, and having him on a one or two year deal would give appropriate development time to Berra (North American style), Brossoit (Pro hockey), and it wouldn't rush guys who aren't ready to play (Gillies, Ortio).

Ramo has done well in the KHL, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL (see: Cervenka). We need a backup plan in case that doesn't work. I don't want to trade for a Bernier etc. because having a good goaltender on a bad team doesn't do anything for development of the goaltender, but rather destroys their confidence to be a starter in the NHL (see: Steve Mason).

Nope, it's actually a good thing to have some older guys that have played pro in other leagues for a few years play on a team with an unknown direction and core talent group. It's unfortunate, but they are fairly disposable until we have something to build around. I like Sven, but I'm not sure he's a franchise player.

[Da_Chief]

No to Joey Macdonald, I'd rather see what Rambo/Yogi can do instead of wasting more games on Joey. Not to mention Id like to see Khudobin brought in.

[FlamingInfinity]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Sorry, can't agree with this. That means to start next year we would have a total of 50 games of NHL experience in net. You bring MacDonald back if only for the reason of having a guy who is NHL tested and experienced. He's played pretty well for us, and having him on a one or two year deal would give appropriate development time to Berra (North American style), Brossoit (Pro hockey), and it wouldn't rush guys who aren't ready to play (Gillies, Ortio).

Ramo has done well in the KHL, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL (see: Cervenka). We need a backup plan in case that doesn't work. I don't want to trade for a Bernier etc. because having a good goaltender on a bad team doesn't do anything for development of the goaltender, but rather destroys their confidence to be a starter in the NHL (see: Steve Mason).

Nope, it's actually a good thing to have some older guys that have played pro in other leagues for a few years play on a team with an unknown direction and core talent group. It's unfortunate, but they are fairly disposable until we have something to build around. I like Sven, but I'm not sure he's a franchise player.

Carey Price played behind a couple of 'meh' Canadiens teams as well. Seems to be doing okay. It's a risk you may have to take, but I'd keep McDonald.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Sorry, can't agree with this. That means to start next year we would have a total of 50 games of NHL experience in net. You bring MacDonald back if only for the reason of having a guy who is NHL tested and experienced.

Not trying to be brash, but so what?

He won't help us get into the playoffs. He's not going to become the long term starter. It doesn't make the Flames substantially better in the short or the long term. He really just takes away time that we can use to assess the other goalies.

And I don't buy the "hurting their confidence" angle. Given the ages of the goalies in question*, we don't have 3-4 years to commit to all of them to ease them into the league. Let's see who can handle the pressure and who can't.


* I'm only referring to Berra, Ramo, Taylor, Brust. I've no intention of having Gillies and Brossoit get tossed into this.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Ok, I get that we want to see who can handle the pressure, but only Ramo knows what it's like in the NHL. Nobody else has even close to his experience, so you're basically throwing them to the wolves. I'm not saying that it can't work out, but it's not a recipe for success either. It's pretty much a crap shoot.

I would rather have a contingency plan in place, even if it's a mediocre one, if for no other reason than to give each player the right situation to have success in.

[caff]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Not trying to be brash, but so what?

He won't help us get into the playoffs. He's not going to become the long term starter. It doesn't make the Flames substantially better in the short or the long term. He really just takes away time that we can use to assess the other goalies.

And I don't buy the "hurting their confidence" angle. Given the ages of the goalies in question*, we don't have 3-4 years to commit to all of them to ease them into the league. Let's see who can handle the pressure and who can't.


* I'm only referring to Berra, Ramo, Taylor, Brust. I've no intention of having Gillies and Brossoit get tossed into this.

agree

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Not trying to be brash, but so what?

He won't help us get into the playoffs. He's not going to become the long term starter. It doesn't make the Flames substantially better in the short or the long term. He really just takes away time that we can use to assess the other goalies.

And I don't buy the "hurting their confidence" angle. Given the ages of the goalies in question*, we don't have 3-4 years to commit to all of them to ease them into the league. Let's see who can handle the pressure and who can't.


* I'm only referring to Berra, Ramo, Taylor, Brust. I've no intention of having Gillies and Brossoit get tossed into this.

Inconsistent/poor goaltending can deflate a whole team. Feaster has made it clear the Flames don't want to promote a losing environment during the rebuild and it doesn't make sense to create an easily avoidable disaster that will chase casual fans from buying tickets. The learning curve for new NHL goalies is steep even for most guys that turn out well. Even though these guys have had success in other leagues, I think throwing them both to the wolves would turn out poorly in the short term most of he time without benefiting them in the long term. There's also plenty of AHL starts to be had while they both adjust to culture shock and a different style/level of hockey.

I really think you need a cheaper guy with experience like Macdonald or an up and comer like Bernier to be with Ramo in the NHL if Kipper is gone. If it's the middle of the season and you run into the best case scenario with Ramo doing well in the NHL and Berra doing well in the AHL then you just trade or waive MacDonald and bring Berra up. It's much easier to do that then to have to scramble to find a MacDonald mid season and demote two guys down the food chain.

As a side note, though he didn't quite knock everyone's socks off quite enough on the big club enough this year, I'm still a tad intrigued by Taylor's potential. If the Heat are done early I wouldn't mind seeing him getting a couple more starts on the Flames even if only to look for a miracle shutout or something before we let him slip thriugh our fingers. He'll probably be trying to sign a two-way NHL contract to get a better crack at the NHL next year and it seems a little crowded here on the Flames.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Ok, I get that we want to see who can handle the pressure, but only Ramo knows what it's like in the NHL. Nobody else has even close to his experience, so you're basically throwing them to the wolves. I'm not saying that it can't work out, but it's not a recipe for success either. It's pretty much a crap shoot.

I would rather have a contingency plan in place, even if it's a mediocre one, if for no other reason than to give each player the right situation to have success in.

Joey MacDonald as a contingency plan essentially means you've got a paddleboat standing by if you need to hunt down the Red October.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Joey MacDonald as a contingency plan essentially means you've got a paddleboat standing by if you need to hunt down the Red October.

Attempt to be clever=fail.

MacDonald is the only goalie we have in our system with any real NHL experience. If the Flames go after a different free agent in the off-season, so be it. We still need someone who has played in the NHL in the last 3 years.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

MacDonald is the only goalie we have in our system with any real NHL experience. If the Flames go after a different free agent in the off-season, so be it. We still need someone who has played in the NHL in the last 3 years.

Here's a better idea:

Talk to Kipper, tell him you realize he loves Calgary, it's a great place to live as he knows, and next year he can assume a new challenge: help mentor a new goalie. Tell him there is no pressure, the team is rebuilding, and he can help start something new. And if things work out with him platooning / mentoring, he can stay on another year to back up / split time with Ramo / Berra / etc...

Kipper is already under contract. It's more money than he'll make elsewhere* and it offers him a comfortable year to see how he wants to move on. Part of me finds it hard to believe that this being his last year, given how it has gone, will sit well with him.


* pretty sure Kipper isn't looking to move to the KHL for a large salary, and I don't suspect the Finnish league is megabucks either.

[manilow78]

Do you think it is wise to take a goalie who is on a 5.8 million cap hit and make him into a mentor? And do you see Kipper as a solid mentor? I see him as a bit of an unconventional goalie with off the chart instincts but I certainly don't qualify as an expert. And you think he is content to play for 1.5 mil. I think I would tank the mentor idea and move on. Get the next up and coming star! BERNIER!

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Here's a better idea:



Talk to Kipper, tell him you realize he loves Calgary, it's a great place to live as he knows, and next year he can assume a new challenge: help mentor a new goalie. Tell him there is no pressure, the team is rebuilding, and he can help start something new. And if things work out with him platooning / mentoring, he can stay on another year to back up / split time with Ramo / Berra / etc...

Kipper is already under contract. It's more money than he'll make elsewhere* and it offers him a comfortable year to see how he wants to move on. Part of me finds it hard to believe that this being his last year, given how it has gone, will sit well with him.


* pretty sure Kipper isn't looking to move to the KHL for a large salary, and I don't suspect the Finnish league is megabucks either.

[mogwai]

Just read short interview with Ramo (@russian sports website) and when asked if he's considering any KHL options for next season his answer was "at this moment my answer is No" Looks like his Plan A is to sign with Flames but answer still sounds like there's a small chance this might change later. Waiting for Kipper's retirement?

[SanFranFlamesFan]

Even if we could get Bernier somehow, there is a big problem with that. He's probably good enough that he would somewhat hide how bad the Flames are, just like Kipper did for many years while coming here. If we are really rebuilding, I don't think we want a great goalie to cover up all our warts until we actually have a lot of promising young talent.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not convinced Kipper will retire. I might have missed it, but I didn't see any confirmation from Feaster or Kipper that retirement was a serious consideration. People are speculating he retires, but I don't think that is the case.

[Pointman]

This reminded me that I signed Khudobin for CPHL Hawks team whooping 8 years ago:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...17&postcount=6

Kinda shows you how long it takes for a goalie to develop.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Draft as many goalies as you'd like (in later rounds) and let god sort them out.

I don't even know if I would even bother drafting them. It seems like they need at least 5-6 years of development to see if they are even semi-legit. More often that not, goalies find success with the 2nd or 3rd organization they are with, and the original team is left holding the bag. Let someone else spend the time and effort developing them.

Sure draft one in the mid/late round every couple of years, but other than the odd guy, don't even bother looking at kids under 22. It seems like their trade value is never that high anyway (well until 2 days ago!) so you can usually pick one up for a 3rd-round pick.