Cody Hodgson with perhaps the goal of the year

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Fortunately they recognized that he's actually a bum and fooled someone into giving up a player like Hodgson for him.

It's like that old quote from Abraham Lincoln...

"You can fool... all of the people some of the time, but you can fool the entire Vancouver Canucks organization all of the time."

[Five-hole]

The 2008 draft is starting to look very good. Check out these steals:

10. Cody Hodgson
12. Tyler Myers
15. Erik Karlsson
22. Jordan Eberle
25. Greg Nemisz (steal of the draft)
27. John Carlson
32. Vyacheslav Voynov
51. Derek Stepan
53. Travis Hamonic
82. Adam Henrique
114. TJ Brodie

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

not really

it's a great goal but as has been pointed out many times he is atrocious defensively

he's 8th in the league in goals scored against while he is on the ice, and the only Centre in the top 20

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=plusMinus

he wouldn't get playing time with AV playing like that in his own zone, it's why they traded him, and it's why when he did play in Van it was always with someone like Hansen/Higgins who are both very responsible defensively

Yeah who would want Steven Stamkos....or Jordan Staal....or John Tavares. Look at all those ####ty centers in the top 30.

[Canada 02]

Cam Neely for Barry Pederson all over again

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

not really

it's a great goal but as has been pointed out many times he is atrocious defensively

he's 8th in the league in goals scored against while he is on the ice, and the only Centre in the top 20

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=plusMinus

he wouldn't get playing time with AV playing like that in his own zone, it's why they traded him, and it's why when he did play in Van it was always with someone like Hansen/Higgins who are both very responsible defensively

......yeah I'd rather have Kassian too... hahahahhaa

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Cam Neely for Barry Pederson all over again

it's too bad there was no calgarypuck back then.

We would have had Blaster66 say how crappy Neely is at backchecking....

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

not really

it's a great goal but as has been pointed out many times he is atrocious defensively

he's 8th in the league in goals scored against while he is on the ice, and the only Centre in the top 20

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=plusMinus

he wouldn't get playing time with AV playing like that in his own zone, it's why they traded him, and it's why when he did play in Van it was always with someone like Hansen/Higgins who are both very responsible defensively

[ernie]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Hodgson: 21 points in 24 games (18:50 TOI).
Kassian: 8 points in 21 games (14:12 TOI).

Good one Gillis.

The more apt comparison is Hodgson of last year....8 points his first 20 games at about 13-14 minutes a game.

Kassian is a year younger with ~100 less games of pro experience. If Kassian develops into a big bodied top 6 winger then the canucks will have done just fine in the deal moving one good asset for another.

Hodgson was moved for reasons everyone knows. 20/20 hindsight is a great thing but the canucks were not expecting to have Kesler come back and break his foot his first game back. Hodgson is a good young player but he was never going to displace Henrik Sedin or a former Selke winning center in Kesler. And he couldn't adjust to the wing at all. So they moved him for the type of piece they never had in the organization. The reason the Sabres felt they could move Kassian (Foligno) is having some major struggles right now. Great for Hodgson to have some offensive success and while defense can be taught he better start learning it soon...he's 23 years old and has shown no real improvement in that part of his game since he turned pro and the Sabres have two big centers they took in the first round last draft. It's not smarts. He has those. It can't all be skating because in the offensive zone he can hustle and win puck battles. He lacks some desire to put in the effort on that side of the puck. If he finds that desire he'll be a good all round player. If he doesn't, he'll find himself on poorer teams.

[Red]

Originally Posted by ernie

The more apt comparison is Hodgson of last year....8 points his first 20 games at about 13-14 minutes a game.

Kassian is a year younger with ~100 less games of pro experience.

Probably for a good reason.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Red

Probably for a good reason.

Yes he's a year younger and therefore, turned pro a year later.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah who would want Steven Stamkos....or Jordan Staal....or John Tavares. Look at all those ####ty centers in the top 30.

Stamkos on for 41 against for 28 +13
Tavares on for 36 against 27 +9
Hodgson is a -4

and I wouldn't compare Staal to that because unlike the 3 above him he is playing against the other teams best offensive lines in a shut down role, whereas those 3 are all in offensive roles

again as I have clearly said, I am not saying he's a bad player and these are all areas he can improve, but he's not playing top 6 minutes on a contender at this point being that bad defensively

judging a trade of a 20 and a 21 year old after 1 season (or 20 games... or 1 nice goal....) is silly

[vilzeh]

Yes, because, it's always the Centers fault if you get scored on. I get it, it's a big thing to defend also, but there are 4 other guys on the ice too.. Sometimes you get a -1 just because you just jumped on the ice and got scored on.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

Yes, because, it's always the Centers fault if you get scored on. I get it, it's a big thing to defend also, but there are 4 other guys on the ice too.. Sometimes you get a -1 just because you just jumped on the ice and got scored on.

I think it's well known that Hodson (-2 according to ESPN) needs to work on his game but the Sabres have been a train wreck at times this season and there are a bunch of players on that roster with worse +/-. Plus/minus is a team stat as good teams tend to have the entire roster in the + column because they outscore their opponents while bad teams the opposite and we know where Buffalo fits this season and the Flames for that matter where nearly the entire roster is in the - column.

[vilzeh]

Exactly. In no way am I saying that he's good defensively, but the guy is young, he's got some serious skills, good hockey IQ, he will find his way in the defensive zone also. To be honest, I haven't seen anything flashy from Kassian yet, not even remotely.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

Exactly. In no way am I saying that he's good defensively, but the guy is young, he's got some serious skills, good hockey IQ, he will find his way in the defensive zone also. To be honest, I haven't seen anything flashy from Kassian yet, not even remotely.

Kassian wasn't brought in to be flashy. He was suppossed to be more of a Bertuzzi 2.0. Big body in front of the net, get in fights, bring energy and hits, etc...

I think the major problem with Kassian is he is a player that dominated younger players physically. However, that's all he really has. It's a lot harder to pull that off against professionals adults at the NHL level.

[AR_Six]

Kassian has good hands and a ridiculously quick wrist shot. His hockey sense is not where Hodgson's is, with the result that he doesn't find himself with the space to use his tools at this level, at least yet. He is a year behind Hodgson in development and players of his build typically take a bit longer, but while not a regular contributor, he has been playing well enough. His line, with Booth and Lapierre, has been consistently been the best or second best (when the Sedins are on) since they've been assembled a few games ago. They haven't lit it up yet, but spend the vast majority of their time in the other team's end and win board battles like it's their job, because, well, it is.

That said, this was a great goal by Hodgson who has adapted to his top 6 role really well and is on his way to being a great player if he can get his own end sorted out. So why does this have to devolve into a discussion about Kassian, who wasn't playing in this game? Oh, of course, because Flames fans.

[neo45]

Funny that Vancouver is now in the market for a top 9 center....


Gillis has been a really bad GM who inherited a really good team. Can't believe he won GM of the year

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by neo45

Funny that Vancouver is now in the market for a top 9 center....


Gillis has been a really bad GM who inherited a really good team. Can't believe he won GM of the year

He inherited a team that was out of the playoffs?

He has made some great moves, some good moves and some awful moves.

Great: Signing Hamhuis and Tanev; Re-signing Burrows (to original contract), H. Sedin, and D. Sedin; trading White for Ehrhoff.

Good: Signing Sundin (helped H. Sedin/Kesler grow), Malholtra and Torres;Re-Signing Bieksa; trading for Higgens and Lapierre... three of whom were large cogs on the cup run in 2011.

Bad: Signing Sturm, M. Schneider, trading for Ballard and Kassian come to mind; offering Sundin the two year contract was pretty horrendous and he got very lucky with that.

Indifferent: Booth trade, letting Mitchell walk away - god he would have looked good in 2011... likely would have been injured though!

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

He inherited a team that was out of the playoffs?

He inherited a team with tons of young talent ready to break out. Ownership wanted Nonis to trade some of that talent for older players and Nonis decided not to. Cost him his job when they missed the playoffs but set Gillis up nicely.

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Great: Signing Hamhuis and Tanev; Re-signing Burrows (to original contract), H. Sedin, and D. Sedin; trading White for Ehrhoff.

Those are pretty good moves, but also pretty unspectacular moves. The Erhoff trade is a robbery

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Good: Signing Sundin (helped H. Sedin/Kesler grow), Malholtra and Torres;Re-Signing Bieksa; trading for Higgens and Lapierre... three of whom were large cogs on the cup run in 2011.

Most of those moves are bad moves, or at the best debatable. Malhotra was a terrible signing, as was Sundin, and Lapierre helped turn the refs against the team permanently for his antics.

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Bad: Signing Sturm, M. Schneider, trading for Ballard and Kassian come to mind; offering Sundin the two year contract was pretty horrendous and he got very lucky with that.

The Garrison contract will be on that list as well, surprised you didn't mention the Luongo contract because it is an albatross. His draft picks have also been meh

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Indifferent: Booth trade, letting Mitchell walk away - god he would have looked good in 2011... likely would have been injured though!

Those are both pretty bad. But the worst thing Gillis has done as GM is letting the years where they are cup contenders slip away. This year looks to be the same, there are some powerhouses in the West and Van needs to add a scoring winger and a third line center, but they won't.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

He inherited a team that was out of the playoffs?

He has made some great moves, some good moves and some awful moves.

Great: Signing Hamhuis and Tanev; Re-signing Burrows (to original contract), H. Sedin, and D. Sedin; trading White for Ehrhoff.

Good: Signing Sundin (helped H. Sedin/Kesler grow), Malholtra and Torres;Re-Signing Bieksa; trading for Higgens and Lapierre... three of whom were large cogs on the cup run in 2011.

Bad: Signing Sturm, M. Schneider, trading for Ballard and Kassian come to mind; offering Sundin the two year contract was pretty horrendous and he got very lucky with that.

Indifferent: Booth trade, letting Mitchell walk away - god he would have looked good in 2011... likely would have been injured though!

Meh, what a load. Just about every key piece of the Canucks Cup contending team was already there when they hired him, OR fell in his lap as a UFA because of location, and/or because of the fact they are a contender.

Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, Schneider, Luongo, Burrows, Hansen, Raymond.......already there.

Hamhuis and Garrison fell in his lap because of the list of players above, and the fact that they are BC boys.

Ballard and Booth trades were god awful, and not because of what thy gave up but because of the contracts those two have.

Hodgson trade is going take time to evaluate completely, but its not looking good at the moment.

The Ehrhoff and Higgins trades, and the Samuelsson signing were pretty much his only good moves IMO.

He had no business winning GM of the year.