Consistency

[TheChief]

Honestly, I blame Glencross.

Jokes aside, I do.

Him and Iginla, to me, are the reason for a good chunk of our struggles the past 3 years.

Two guys who like to take nights off.

We got rid of Bourque last year, hopefully these two follow him out the door, and we can start to implement a proper system.

Until then I see us struggling in mediocrity until these "leaders" are gone.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Not that I disagree with the point you are making entirely - but I think Nashville and Phoenix have rosters just as good, if not better than Calgary.

I like the Yotes roster quite a bit - lots of under-rated guys like Hanzal, Yandle, Boedker that don't get a ton of pub - but are quite good.

Yeah I still think that roster isn't very good as they depend on Steve Sullivan and David Moss for offense. Yandle is the only player that's in the conversation of being a top player and Hanzal is more Stephane Yelle than Joe Sakic. Useful player but a lot of teams have an unheralded center like that (just not the Flames)

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

Iginla hasn't been afforded the choice for most of his career to handle the puck less. He has played mostly with average NHLers and a few good NHLers but no one great like he himself is. I believe he is now conditioned to play a certain way and there is no way to break that in Calgary.

Put him on a different team and with a player like Crosby, where it isn't Iginla's team, and I have no doubt he would easily defer to Crosby and be a great asset for that team. I think they would be amazing together.

Iginla would be a great asset to PIT, PHI, CHI, BOS, NYR, MON, OTT, SJ, ANA, LA, STL, TAM.
I could see NJ being interested. VAN even but i do not believe the Flames or Iginla himself would entertain that destinatiion.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think Iggy is actually hard to play with. For a winger he wants to handle the puck too much still - where he should be focusing on being a pure trigger man.

I don't know how well things would go if Iggy finds himself with a guy like Crosby.

I think he's hard to play with in Calgary where he's 'the man' but on a different team where he's the new guy he would hopefully play the role the coaches ask of him. I think a big part of his sudden decline is that he's in a terrible situation for an aging player. He's in a comfortable place where he's always been counted to do it all. He can't anymore. Not even close and he's too proud to admit he can't so he tries harder and it makes things worse. He needs to leave before he his career has a meltdown ending in Calgary.

[Sylvanfan]

Didn't Darryl Sutter comment just after he got to Calgary, that if Iginla scored some goals, and they beat the Oilers the players thought that was good enough? Seems like that mentality has made it's way back except that the 35 year old Iginla no longer is a 35-50 goal scorer that the 25 year old one was.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think he's hard to play with in Calgary where he's 'the man' but on a different team where he's the new guy he would hopefully play the role the coaches ask of him. I think a big part of his sudden decline is that he's in a terrible situation for an aging player. He's in a comfortable place where he's always been counted to do it all. He can't anymore. Not even close and he's too proud to admit he can't so he tries harder and it makes things worse. He needs to leave before he his career has a meltdown ending in Calgary.

Exactly to me its like watching who once was maybe the most dominent Heavy Weight during his era in Larry Holmes.
The fans boxing fans that saw him in his decade of prime he was the best of the best untouchable.
But the boxing fans that only saw the older version of Larry Holmes saw a shadow of HOF boxer and viewed him as a has been.

Iginla is not a has been but if the Flames keep him around in the role we are used to seeing him be in he will start to be seen as a has been. Flat out Iginla is ok with good effort tonight less than average tomorrow and so on and so on.
The Flames are in no position to be able to succeed or even attempt get back to the playoffs with that kind of attitude.
Move Iginla to a team and suddenly he is Hungry to win night in night out. Its life he is comfortable and mellowed out here.
Its no blame its just the way life goes eventually for some that are in the same setting too long.
Move him to a contender and will want to prove to his new team mates he belongs and is worth whatever they gave up to get him.

If the Flames keep Iginla as the man for too long and the results are not there the fans will roast Iginla and the organization.
They will turn, its already begun. Every night after a game you can hear several fans mumbling complaining, blank blank Igina most of the anger is turning about Iginla.
If the results are not there its hard to defend the keeping Iginla argument. It was easy for me to say trade Iginla are you nutz.
They have to move him for the good of the fanbase, Iginla and the franchise.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Didn't Darryl Sutter comment just after he got to Calgary, that if Iginla scored some goals, and they beat the Oilers the players thought that was good enough? Seems like that mentality has made it's way back except that the 35 year old Iginla no longer is a 35-50 goal scorer that the 25 year old one was.

I've said before I have a bad feeling that he doesn't care about winning a cup as much as being in his comfort zone in Calgary and that he will resign here which would be the worst thing that could happen for the franchise and Iginla's legacy. The chances of him resigning here in the offseason quite frankly terrifies me.

[Gunkle]

I think that the coach is totally wrong. We are the most consistent team in the NHL. We are world beaters, and take a nap for a game or two. Didn't Hartley get TSN in Zurich?

We stink of complacency. If I don't show up to work, I am fired. If a Flames doesn't show up, he gets top line minutes. I can't imagine the caveats that Hartley must have placed on him as coach....'Thou shalt not perturb the Iggy...'

The 800lbs gorilla is in the room. If decisions were made on paper, Iggy would be either be getting forth line minutes, or stapled to the bench.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think he's hard to play with in Calgary where he's 'the man' but on a different team where he's the new guy he would hopefully play the role the coaches ask of him. I think a big part of his sudden decline is that he's in a terrible situation for an aging player. He's in a comfortable place where he's always been counted to do it all. He can't anymore. Not even close and he's too proud to admit he can't so he tries harder and it makes things worse. He needs to leave before he his career has a meltdown ending in Calgary.

I agree with some of that but even when he's playing with a guy like tanguay he handles the puck way too much. Plus we have very little evidence that he's willing to change or evolve his game

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I agree with some of that but even when he's playing with a guy like tanguay he handles the puck way too much. Plus we have very little evidence that he's willing to change or evolve his game

We have plenty of evidence that he is perfectly content to not change his game in any way, despite the urging of now multiple coaches.

[Jason14h]

Every team is inconsistant to a degree. The better team just play more periods of better hockey.

Think about it this way: When we have a great period the other team's fan are probably thinking they are playing an inconsistent period/game.

[Jason14h]

We have plenty of evidence that he is perfectly content to not change his game in any way, despite the urging of now multiple coaches.

After 1200 NHL games it isn't quiet as easy as "change your game"

Players react, they don't think/plan how to play

[Stay Golden]

Its not just Iginla, but its easy to shift most of the blame on him because he is the Captain, the leader, been here the longest, has been the leader in goals and points 99% of past seasons, and is the highest paid on the team.
If you look at the last 3,4 seasons it has consistency been Iginla, Glencross, Bouwmeester, Gio, Tanguay, that go strong and then slack off.
You add Cammy to that list as well as he takes nights off as well then goes strong for a few.
When that happens because of their roles and importance to the team the whole team slides back below 500, every season for the last 4 years.
They have a great game or a good couple games and say to them selves i can let the rest of the team pick up the slack tonight and the usually lose.
You can even see this for individual games or they as a group they play strong for 2 periods or a period and then go that was good enough for now we can rest a bit.

But then when the game becomes tight again they can't find that extra gear because either they physically have cooled down or mentally they can't find it and defeat themselves.
They try to find that extra energy to battle but its too late its gone. They missed the moment.


The great teams seldom act like this, the good teams sometimes do, and the bad teams suffer everytime they get lax in the effort and complacent department.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I agree with some of that but even when he's playing with a guy like tanguay he handles the puck way too much. Plus we have very little evidence that he's willing to change or evolve his game

Yeah but that goes back to that comfort zone I was talking about. He's playing hockey with his old buddy and they like to do their fancy passing plays. I think in a new room where he's not the captain he would hopefully try to fit in rather than play his Calgary game as if his new coach tells him "we don't do things that way" it's not like he has the clout he has in Calgary where he knows he has the owners and city in his corner. He will conform or he won't play. None of us can be sure how he would fare on another team but I think he would do well with the Penguins as he's going to see more open ice playing alongside Malkin or Crosby with maybe Neal on the other wing. I think any team that's interested in seriously taking a run at Iginla would be better served to get him a little before the deadline if possible as I'm sure he may have initial struggles with a change of scenery and situation.

All this is speculative talk though as we don't even know if he would waive his NTC at this point or if the Flames will ask him.

[browna]

Starts from the back...consistency in net and not worried that the next good chance goes in the net, has everyone playing a bit looser. It also breeds confidence that a team still needing to find its feet, requires.

These forwards have shown they can score, and in the Dallas game, kept with it through two tough periods to come on in the third. Phoenix was a one (junk) goal game until early in the third, when another junk one goes in and the confidence there was, goes out the window. Stempniak hit the post earlier in the 1st, and having that go in gives the team the confidence that a team notoious of lulling you to sleep like Phoenix is not going to pull that trick again, and that gives the team that confidence.

In general, after a good offensive performance this year I do think the team is a bit guilty of thinking that next game that everything will click just like that up front again. When it doesn't and it takes them a period or half a game to figure out it isn't going to work the same way, they have to adapt.

Depending on the score and momentum and above mentioned Flames goaltending, at the time and flow of the game, it may be too little too late to overcome the mountain.

[tendulkar23]

Consistency: steadfast adherence to the same principles, course, form, etc.

The Flames basically play the same way each night. The effectiveness of it depends on their opposition. I believe that Flames are too consistent and it is detrimental to the team's success.

If you watch any of the top teams play each night, they are able to adjust to their opponents. It is the reason why the Penguins or the Blackhawks are able to win 1-0 games as well as 6-5 games. The Flames are just unable to make the adjustment and exploit weaknesses. It's the reason why they beat the teams they do and they lose to the teams they do.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

The Flames inconsistency as a team comes down to two simple things for me. Already been touched on to a degree:

1) Individual Skill - Quite simply we lack any real high end talent. Part of being high end talent means doing what you do on a consistent basis. As we lack players that can play at a higher level night in and night out the team itself will not play to a high level night in and night out. Tanguay, Iggy, Cammy, Glencross play lights out one night and are invisible the next. And these are our top players.

2) Individual Committment to the Team - I may butcher this explanation a bit but its the degree in which the individual is willing to commit to the team. The coaches system, holding teammates accountable, being accountable, etc. Too often with the Flames I've gotten the feeling some players go their own direction when the team starts to falter instead of adhering to the coaches system. Or else are more concerned with individual performance. I look to two teams already mentioned - the Coyotes and the Predators - as great examples of teams that have some individual skill but also where the sum is greater than the parts.

So in addressing the OP's question it's really a bit of column a and a bit of column b when it comes to the Flames. You'll get some of the inconsistency that any team gets as a fringe playoff team. However, I think the Flames specifically also have had a lack of committment to the team that makes their inconsistencies a little more glaring and prevailent. It's not like we haven't had some skill come through here in the last little while but we've never really gotten the results.