Need advice to convince someone

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by canada 02

as a cantankerous chinese professor, i highly recommend you drop the victim mentality and attitude during our meeting. If you go in there and say the things you said in the op (even in a diplomatic way), i will tell you no way.

The best chance you have is to give academic reasons for why you deserve the waiver. Point out similar classes you have taken to the one you received a d, and how you excelled in those classes. Describe how you earned your scholarship, not how you will lose it.

In short, give positive reason's why you deserve the waiver, not negative ramifications of not receiving the waiver.


See you sunday.

fyp

[undercoverbrother]

Hmmmmm no mention of knee pads, how odd.

[Canada 02]

Frankly, even if you say all the right things, he may still be reluctant to give you the waiver, simply because you've had two years to take the class over again.

During the meeting, if you get the sense that it's not going your way, I'd suggest you offer to take the pre-requisite class over again while also enrolling in his class. Even go as far as to guarantee an above average grade in the pre-requisite as a condition for successful completion of his class. Show him you are serious

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Frankly, even if you say all the right things, he may still be reluctant to give you the waiver, simply because you've had two years to take the class over again.

During the meeting, if you get the sense that it's not going your way, I'd suggest you offer to take the pre-requisite class over again while also enrolling in his class. Even go as far as to guarantee an above average grade in the pre-requisite as a condition for successful completion of his class. Show him you are serious

Thats pretty good advice I think.
He can probably smell BS a mile away.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Way I see it is, if you don't get the mark needed it's a fail. His needing a waiver seems to support this.

He didn't even need to attend the course and he can get a waiver. He could have gotten a W and got a waiver.
He could have played hackeysack all semester and gotten a waiver and still gotten into the class, much like those lazy doctors and lawyers you were talking about earlier.


However, he attended the class and passed. The D might not have been good enough to get directly into another class, but its hardly a fail.

Saying he failed because this other class wants a C+ is like saying an A is a fail because my strict Dad wants only A+s.
His D is as much a pass as that A. Both not what the other user wanted, but again, not a fail.

Originally Posted by Iginla

I wonder how many politicians who can't use proper grammar and punctuation go on to succeed.

Your paragraph looks like it was written by a grade 9 student, yet people like you are running for Alderman?

That makes me depressed.

[vektor]

To clarify:

1. the class I got a D in was a math class

2. I didn't wait 2 years to get this signed, I was on the wait list to get into the class and the day I got past the wait list the professor left the country for a month

3. I have a scholarship, I got better grades in classes much more advanced

4. the class I'm trying to get into has very little to do with the linear algebra I got a D in

5. An advanced linear algebra class (literally called AMAT) that I need to take let me in with 30 seconds of talk

6. people worried I'm going to build a bridge that kills everyone need not worry, this was one D two years ago
when I've carried a high enough average to keep a scholarship. Saying it's my fault and I deserve this isn't quite accurate, hundreds of students get waivers in this situation and the material I didn't do well in I've already learned in more advanced courses. The only reason he won't let me in is because of his personal policy, and to those saying it's not a big deal really have no idea. It's my future on the line in the hands of one man, I could take the final for that class I got a D in right now and do just fine, I'm not going to kill anyone, I just need one break so I don't have to wait an entire year because of one course. If I don't get in, which will make me a non-student, I will get kicked out my house, lose my scholarship and have no where to live so it kind of is a big deal to me. It irks me that so many people jump all over me like no one else has ever gotten a break in life.

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Frankly, even if you say all the right things, he may still be reluctant to give you the waiver, simply because you've had two years to take the class over again.

During the meeting, if you get the sense that it's not going your way, I'd suggest you offer to take the pre-requisite class over again while also enrolling in his class. Even go as far as to guarantee an above average grade in the pre-requisite as a condition for successful completion of his class. Show him you are serious

this was pretty much my plan, I'm willing to write the final or do anything to get in. I'd skip Christmas and New Year studying to get an A, piss off my entire family and my girlfriend so I'm not ruined. Whatever it takes I'd do, it just comes down to one guy just not caring at all and not wanting to go to even the effort of signing a piece of paper, or that's what I'm worried about.

Originally Posted by Canada 02

as a cantankerous Chinese professor, I highly recommend you drop the victim mentality and attitude during your meeting. If you go in there and say the things you said in the OP (even in a diplomatic way), I would tell you no way.

The best chance you have is to give academic reasons for why you deserve the waiver. Point out similar classes you have taken to the one you received a D, and how you excelled in those classes. Describe how you earned your scholarship, not how you will lose it.

In short, give positive reason's why you deserve the waiver, not negative ramifications of not receiving the waiver.

Obviously, the problem is the prof I need to sign the waiver is renowned as one of the worst professor's in the university (for being quite unprofessional and not fit to be teaching classes, the class booed him after the last midterm because he made so many mistakes the average suffered and he refused to fix them or even admit to them). I was merely outlining the situation, I plan on going in and telling him how every physics class I ever took I got an A in, I have a scholarship, etc. etc. but it still could come down to him saying no no matter what I say. I'm not going to play the victim card

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by vektor

I could take the final for that class I got a D in right now and do just fine,

Isn't there an option to "challenge" the course by retaking the exam?

[Kybosh]

Ya. Eigenvalues and eigenvectors are a bitch.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Isn't there an option to "challenge" the course by retaking the exam?

that's my plan C if he is stubborn enough, but he still might not allow it

[GGG]

I would just show him your marks in the advanced linear algebra class and he will likely sign a waiver. If not go over his head to get in. Unless you have burned bridges in the dean's office or have already run out of chances because you do this on a regular basis university administration will usually be very understanding. Just don't be whiny and be a victim.

I used tons of pre-req waivers to do my engineering degree as I transferred in in my second year of university and I tried to complete my degree in 4 years still. So I ended up taking the 2nd year and 3rd year classes for some courses at the same time.

No professor ever refused, even some with reputations of being by the book. If you sell them on your ability to complete their class and not be a drag on their time they will let you in

[vektor]

Originally Posted by GGG

No professor ever refused, even some with reputations of being by the book. If you sell them on your ability to complete their class and not be a drag on their time they will let you in

I pray to god you are right, and I haven't burned any bridges. I talked to the dean this afternoon and told him my concerns and he told me it's the profs decision and nobody elses.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by vektor

Whatever it takes I'd do, it just comes down to one guy just not caring at all and not wanting to go to even the effort of signing a piece of paper, or that's what I'm worried about.

I'll repeat my question.

Why are you so sure that he's going to screw you over?

And why do you talk about him not caring and showing a lack of effort when he is willing to meet you the Sunday before Christmas when he could just fire off a simple email of refusal to you?

Obviously, the problem is the prof I need to sign the waiver is renowned as one of the worst professor's in the university (for being quite unprofessional and not fit to be teaching classes, the class booed him after the last midterm because he made so many mistakes the average suffered and he refused to fix them or even admit to them).

No. Obviously the problem is that you fata'd up a couple years back and need a waiver. No offence, but this comes across as an early attempt to deflect the blame for your predicament.

I just don't get how you can talk about someone that is giving up part of their Sunday to meet some random student as not caring or unwilling to put in an effort.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I just don't get how you can talk about someone that is giving up part of their Sunday to meet some random student as not caring or unwilling to put in an effort.

he is not giving up his Sunday to meet me. He was my professor for a class this term, he left the day classes ended and was not here the entire time to help any of the students. He is simply going to be in his office out of necessity because he has been gone for so long. I feel like he's going to refuse me because in his emails he made it seem like he wants to find a way to not let me in, like he has the option to but he would rather not even though there is room in the class and the material being taught will have nothing to do with linear algebra and I'm already in an advanced algebra class with the class I got a D in as a prereq. as well.

I repeat, he is not giving up his Sunday to meet with me, he has not answered my email even asking when he will be in his office so I'm going to be sitting at his door at 8 am until he shows up (if he does at all)

[Bagor]

I assumed when I read "this prof who I'm seeing on Sunday" that there was a scheduled meeting as opposed to a stake out.

[vektor]

Yeah I understand, he said he'd be back on Sunday and maybe he'd look at my waiver. The Dean said it's entirely up to him

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Maybe in your biz FW...I would think that most companies would cut bait with an employee that thought he could get by with a waiver on a project that rated a D.

If I fired everyone that has worked for me that has made a mistake, today I'd have, well, none.

Every good manager I've worked with has been willing to listen to an employee when they have messed up. Most bad ones I've worked with also have. It's not a single mistake that makes a bad employee, it's systemic mistakes and not having learned from them that makes a bad employee.

If Vektor demonstrates that he make a mistake, that he is otherwise successful, dilligent, etc, then cut him a break. I don't see why there is hostility towards him here. He's not trying to waive the requirement of taking the follow up class, he's arguing a case to be given a shot at taking it. He still has to pass the class. If he gets in and fails, he suffers the consequences, if he gets in and passes then the waiver was deserved.

[Titan]

sorry about the formatting. not sure why it does that.I find it hard to believe some of the self righteuous pricks on here sometimes. A reasonable request in my opinion.My suggestion: 1. Put your case in writing. Be organized and thoughtful. Demonstrate attention to detail and thouroughness in your application and it will show that you will approach his course the same way. Also, if and when you need to appeal the decision the process will be much easier if you can demonstrate you presented your request reasonably and thoroughly.2. Give a BRIEF explanation why you only achieved a D in the pre-req. Do not provide an excuse but explain a reason. If you just sloughed it off be honest and explain you have learned from that experience and then demonstrate how you have learned from it.2a. Explain what you did about the wait list and explain that you did not put off this issue but that the timing was based on getting past the wait list.3. Give extensive reasons how you have now mastered the material in the pre-req course. I would go so far as compare syllabi from the PR course and any course you later took that coverered material that may have been based on that course. Be comprehensive. Putting in a couple hours preparing this will demonstrate that you take it serious more than whining about having to move out or losing a scholarship (Which are perfectly reasonable reasons to feel angst but he will likely not care.)4. If it is related explain how you got the scholarship as a demonstration of your mastery of the subject and as a testament to your work ethic.Prepare this as a formal letter. When you are writing, write as if the Dean will be reading it one day, which he/she well may be.Be respectful, humble and contrite but at the same time be express confidence that you know the material.If he says no there is definitly an appeal path and process. The Dean correctly stated it is the profs decision but if he says no that is not the final answer.Good luck.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Let's translate this to the business world. Hmmmm...sorry boss I didn't get the report done as you had asked....but it's kinda close.

I wonder if that boss would give you a waiver?

Originally Posted by Cheese

Maybe in your biz FW...I would think that most companies would cut bait with an employee that thought he could get by with a waiver on a project that rated a D.

A little late to the party here, but as someone who has worked in many different situations this simply isnt true.

I'm not in the business of report writing, but in the workplace I've seen incompetence rewarded more times than I care to remember.

I understand completely where vektor is coming from, I'm thankful it never happened to me, but I understand it.

vektor, my advice:

Seriously man, I know where you're coming from but your attitude that we can feel in this thread is bad. Theres a lot on the line and you are taking it personally. It cant be personal.

You've got a victim mentality because you've analyzed the situation a million ways from Sunday. Analyzing the situation is smart, but right now you're taking the 'animal backed into a corner' approach and if you speak to the prof with this attitude you're going to have a bad time.

You've thought of and made contingency plans in terms of offers/fallbacks by offering to challenge or study etc, and those are great.

However, I am a firm believer that the medium is just as important as the message. Meaning that 'how' you say what you want to say is just as important as 'what' you have to say. And the way you're portraying yourself, your attitude and your opinion of this prof in this thread is simply not going to work. You can tell by most of the responses to this thread that this is true.

Be positive. Be firm. But be positive. You've got a plan, but if you go in intending to use this plan as a plan of attack then you're going down. You hold no cards and no keys. Do not attack him.

Present your case, do it confidently, but dont be aggressive. And for the love of God please take the mental categorization of 'cantakerous old Chinese guy' and eliminate it. It isnt going to help you. Right now it sounds like you hate this guy and if you carry that hate into the meeting he'll figure it out, hate you right back and shred all your hopes.

Hate him after the meeting when his signature is on your waiver if you want, by then if you hate him and he hates you the deed is done and the hate doesnt matter to anyone but before the meeting that is a serious problem.

I hope that helps. I wish I was as smart as I am now when I was in University.

[Rathji]

I am still confused how you could only manage a D in linear algebra.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I am still confused how you could only manage a D in linear algebra.

I remember my first couple years of University, I totally phoned it in. Classic case of underestimating a course.