Hamas Military Leader Killed (Here we go again...)

[Flash Walken]

The key actor on the Hamas side was Ahmed Jaabari, the commander of Ezedin al Qassam, the military wing of Hamas. When he was convinced that Israel was ready to stand down as well, Jaabari was always ready to take the orders to force the ceasefire on all of the other factions and on Hamas.

Both Israel and Hamas had decided months ago not to take action on my proposed ceasefire option, which included within it a mechanism that would prevent Israeli pre-emptive actions and would enable Hamas to prove that it was prepared to prevent terror attacks against Israel. Both sides responded very seriously to the proposal, but without any signal that there was an openness on the other side, neither was willing to advance the possibility for testing it.

Several weeks ago, I decided to try once again and, through my counterpart in Hamas, we both began speaking to high level officials on both sides. A few days ago I met my counterpart in Cairo and we agreed that he would draft a new proposal based on our common understanding of what was required to make it work.

Yesterday morning, hours before Israel assassinated Ahmed Jaabari, my counterpart in Hamas presented the draft to Jaabari and to other Hamas leaders. Senior Hamas leaders on the outside had already seen it and had instructed him to check the reactions to it in Gaza. I was supposed to receive the draft yesterday evening to present to Israeli officials who were waiting for me to send it to them.

That option is now off the table. Jaabari is dead and so is the chance for a mutually beneficial long term ceasefire understanding. Why did Benjamin Netanyahu do it? The cynical answer already offered by Aluf Benn in Haaretz is elections consideration. Cast Lead was also conducted before elections. Hitting Jaabari, according to Netanyahu’s thinking, would help him in the upcoming Israeli elections. Perhaps this is true, perhaps not.

It seems to me that some of the commanders of the Israeli army have been very frustrated that the previous agreements to return to calm left Israel in a weaker position, with Hamas calling the shots. They have been calling to rebuild Israel’s deterrence. Let them in Gaza feel the pain of a serious Israeli attack and then they will think seven times before shooting more rockets, is what they proposed. In the last days there has been a lot of talk from politicians, military experts and officers to return to the policy of “targeted killings.” This, they claim, would make the Hamas leaders hide for their lives and stop shooting at us. These military geniuses failed to realize that what never worked in the past will not work now either.

Now millions of Israelis and Palestinians are living under the terror of attack. Many more Gazans will be killed than Israelis, but is this a worthy achievement that we can be proud of and that will guarantee our long term security? I don’t think so.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-for-calm.html

[Thor]

More stuff on my social media.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by smoothpops

"The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."

WOW! that's one of the dumbest statements ever made, by either side!!

I think its time that the world recognizes that both sides have no interest in lasting peace. Many peace proposals have been offered from different sources/countries, and neither side has shown any signs of wanting to implement them. at this point, what's the point of supporting either side?[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that if Palestine stopped firing rockets into Israel permamently, that Israel would continue to fire rockets back anyways?

I find that hard to believe. One side of this conflict exclusively prefers military provocation to the point of all out war.

[smoothpops]

I didn't say that, what i said was that's a moronic statement, and both sides are not interested in striving for peace.
If the Palestinians stopped firing rockets at Isreal, Isreal would not stop building illegal settlements. And if Isreal stopped building illegal settlements, Palestinians would not stop firing rockets at Isreal. This is a conflict with war mongers on each side of the divide, and the world needs to stop being their pawns.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by smoothpops

I didn't say that, what i said was that's a moronic statement, and both sides are not interested in striving for peace.
If the Palestinians stopped firing rockets at Isreal, Isreal would not stop building illegal settlements. And if Isreal stopped building illegal settlements, Palestinians would not stop firing rockets at Isreal. This is a conflict with war mongers on each side of the divide, and the world needs to stop being their pawns.

All I'm saying, is that firing rockets at civilians is not equal to building settlements, and trying to equate the two is not helpful.

Full stop.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by smoothpops

"The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."

WOW! that's one of the dumbest statements ever made, by either side!!

I think its time that the world recognizes that both sides have no interest in lasting peace. Many peace proposals have been offered from different sources/countries, and neither side has shown any signs of wanting to implement them. at this point, what's the point of supporting either side?

Because they both want the same thing and neither is giving it up. Neither will agree to peace until the other agrees to it's demands


When Israel launches an offensive it's big news because they do so behind the power of one of the most sophisticated military's in the world

Like others have said there have been double digit rocket launches in to Israel the last year, and none of it made as big a story in the media as this Israel attack has

If the Israeli military dissolved the country would cease to exist within a week, I don't know how that can be denied

If they stopped being attack, I don't believe they would be an aggressor

That being said, it's not going to happen in the near future. Neither will give up their goal

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by smoothpops

I didn't say that, what i said was that's a moronic statement, and both sides are not interested in striving for peace.
If the Palestinians stopped firing rockets at Isreal, Isreal would not stop building illegal settlements. And if Isreal stopped building illegal settlements, Palestinians would not stop firing rockets at Isreal. This is a conflict with war mongers on each side of the divide, and the world needs to stop being their pawns.

Building illegal settlements isn't war mongering. It's not nice, but it's not war mongering. Firing rockets into another country, however, most definitely is. Isn't this basically what the other guy said?

[smoothpops]

Your completely missing my point. I'm not arguing that one side is better then the other, i'm arguing that both sides are shunning peace measures in order to continue this asinine conflict. In the meantime, people from all over the world are being sucked into it, and are acting as either side's pawns, and are enabling the conflict to continue. This conflict is sort of like an alcoholic, even though its a disease, the alcoholic won't make any strides to get better until the people around them stop enabling them. In this thread alone, I've seen people make justifications for firing rockets, building settlements and all sorts of actions that they would never condone in their real lives. Stop making excuses for this century old conflict, its gone on way too long.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by smoothpops

Your completely missing my point. I'm not arguing that one side is better then the other, i'm arguing that both sides are shunning peace measures in order to continue this asinine conflict. In the meantime, people from all over the world are being sucked into it, and are acting as either side's pawns, and are enabling the conflict to continue. This conflict is sort of like an alcoholic, even though its a disease, the alcoholic won't make any strides to get better until the people around them stop enabling them. In this thread alone, I've seen people make justifications for firing rockets, building settlements and all sorts of actions that they would never condone in their real lives. Stop making excuses for this century old conflict, its gone on way too long.

My argument remains the same:

Justifications for firing rockets into civilions is not the same as justifications for building settlements. There is no equivocation.

Only one side of this conflict continually chooses a violent and military course of provocation.

Once Hamas decides to stop firing rockets, totally and finally, they would easily win over the entire worlds perception and probably achieve nearly all their goals in a negotiated settlement.

But for whatever reason... blind hatred, religous zeal, provocation from other arab nations... they refuse to stop violent attacks.

And so we go on in a circle, again.

[Azure]

Well at the end of the day the only way to completely avoid the fact that Hamas instigates the conflict by firing thousands of rockets into Israel is to claim that Israel instigates it by building the settlements or occupying land that they are apparently not supposed to have.

The other thing to think about here is that only one side is electing 'terrorist' organizations into power, and allows those terrorist organizations dictate public policy.

There are plenty of Arab people living peacefully in Israel. Like mentioned before, many even serve in the IDF.

So sorry, I have a hard time believing both sides are equally at fault. Both sides have their fair share of the blame, but only one side is starting the conflict by committing obvious acts of war.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's hilarious that maybe this song is more relevant than ever, 27 years later.

NSFW!

[undercoverbrother]

https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-for-calm.html

Come on Flash, this is a brutal article. There is no mention of over a thousand rockets fired by Hamas before Israel retaliated. In other words, this was written with one purpose, to blame Israel for the attacks.

The writer made it seem that out of the blue Israel attacked. You know this is not true, so why would you post that?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Thor

More stuff on my social media.

These signs are amazing.
Signs like this feed the dumb. The reason Palestinian children die is because Hamas hides behind them to shoot their missiles. The reason fewer Israelis die is because the government values life and makes bunkers and shelters available. Hamas makes sure to operate in populated areas.

[undercoverbrother]

Nage Waza, this is not a troll. I am interested on what you see as a resolution/end to the issues.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Come on Flash, this is a brutal article. There is no mention of over a thousand rockets fired by Hamas before Israel retaliated. In other words, this was written with one purpose, to blame Israel for the attacks.

The writer made it seem that out of the blue Israel attacked. You know this is not true, so why would you post that?

I disagree. The purpose of writing this article was, in a totally hypocritical way, to influence the upcomming election. The author is an extreme left-wing Israeli. He wants those he considers to be right wing to do poor in the election.

And yes, you are right, he fails to mention the fact that the cease-fire had clearly already fallen apart. Rockets were already being launched at Israel without regard for the ceasefire, and Jaabari was either powerless to do anything about it or he chose not do to anything. Either way, assassinating Jaabari did not result in the rocket fire; the rocket fire was arleady occuring.

[Hans Landa]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

... the government values life

A cornerstone of Western Civilization!

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

These signs are amazing.
Signs like this feed the dumb. The reason Palestinian children die is because Hamas hides behind them to shoot their missiles. The reason fewer Israelis die is because the government values life and makes bunkers and shelters available. Hamas makes sure to operate in populated areas.

No kidding. First thing that came to mind when I saw that sign is that the rows "Number of children used as shields for (para)military operations" and "Number of children used on suicide missions" were missing.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson

The IDF and the Al Qassam Brigades https://twitter.com/AlqassamBrigade

basically just troll each other on twitter

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Azure

So sorry, I have a hard time believing both sides are equally at fault. Both sides have their fair share of the blame, but only one side is starting the conflict by committing obvious acts of war.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure if it really matters who's more at fault....whether it's 70/30 or 50/50.....the conflict is still there. Both sides are never going to back down, and enough people from both sides seem to think they are innocent (just like there are myopic Arab-supporters, good luck getting a guy like Nage to even admit a shred of Israeli responsibility) to the point where it's pointless to debate the percentages.

I know it's probably not the most popular solution, but I still think the best way for the rest of the world to deal with this issue is to back off and let them figure it out on their own. No more support (financial, moral, political, or military) for either side. If it means war and bloodshed, so be it. If Israel needs to bring out the big guns, so be it. If Palestine needs to do the same, so be it. Let them have their battle royale. But I'm tired of the rest of the world getting caught up in a squabble between these two parasites, and then us having to pay the bills.