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Old 11-13-2012, 10:53 PM   #41
Rocky Raccoon
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This thread has been modified. After being banned the original poster of the thread has indicated the information provided in the thread is the proprietary property of Browmwich & Smith, Inc. and requested that the information be removed or be faced with a lawsuit. We disagree but in an abundance of caution and to avoid the hardship of having to defend such a lawsuit we have complied with the request.

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Old 11-14-2012, 01:15 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour View Post
From a philosophical perspective...

The reasons that student loan debt is not forgiven through a bankruptcy relate to a few things, some of which are evident from the 7 year rule you refer to. Specifically, the concern is that young adults coming out of university with high debt loads, little assets, and a long working life ahead of them may see bankruptcy as a quick and easy way around paying back student loans that will otherwise hold them back financially for several years while being willing to take the credit hit knthe meantime that goes away after 7 years. By stipulating that student loan debt cannot be eliminated through bankruptcy for a period of seven years, bankruptcy is disincentivized for recent grads as an easy out. Furthermore, since these loans often are or have been guaranteed by the government, this law somewhat protects governments from the consequences of this type of default since the right to pursue a judgment is preserved. Finally, looking at it from the other side, since student loans are effectively unsecured debt, the interest rates on these loans and the potential cost to the government to guarantee these loans might be significantly higher if the financial institutions handing out the money perceive a high risk of default. Arguably, the exclusion of this type of debt from bankruptcy, should lower that perceived risk for both lenders and guarantor of this debt making the costs for both borrowers and government guarantor easier to manage.
So, does this mean that before the BIA legislation concerning student debt in the 90s, that there was a significant number of graduates who were declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid paying back their student loans?

And, did interest rates for student loans go down after the BIA legislation for student debt in the 1990s?
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:30 AM   #43
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^ Interesting question. Although I am confident that the answer I gave, as further elaborated by Delgar, is accurate, my understanding of this comes from my Debtor-Creditor Relations and Bankruptcy/Insolvency courses in law School around 2000 and I don't practice in the area specifically. I have not followed the trends of bankruptcy and insolvency so I really can't comment on whether a change in the law has rectified a perceived problem. Also, although I am unsure of the complete history on the issue, I do believe that the change regarding student loan debt was in response to a trend of increasing abuse of this type that resulted from rising education costs and student debt that really took off in the 90's. I know when I graduated from law school I had a debt that was about 50% higher than my first year's salary. I would never have considered bankruptcy as a short cut to getting rid of that, but I could see the temptation...

As far as interest rates for student loans go, I don't know a lot about that any more, but do recall that in the late 90's early 00's there were significant changes to the administration and funding of student loans and the government's level of involvement. At the time I had my student loans, they were interest free for the duration of my studies, then upon graduation you negotiated a repayment plan at market rates with your lender. I believe I started paying mine back with a floating rate that was around 10% or so. I don't think the changes to BIA had any effect in terms of lowering rates, but may have stopped them from getting out of hand as implied by Delgar. Someone who was actually working in the industry during the period the changes were implemented would likely have a more sophisticated view than mine.

EDIT: As a matter of curiosity, if you want to see a summary of the thoughts behind the 1997 changes and the subsequent relaxing of the rules in 2008, you can read about it here:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/Re.../prb0126-e.htm

My answer was definitely incomplete. (I completely forgot about the changes to student loans in the mid-90's for example, which is when I was starting my undergrad.)

BTW, I'm glad this thread is back on track. Rocky's information has been good. I can appreciate the perspective that not everybody wants the nerd answer to the question, but didn't see it from that viewpoint in the first response I quoted and used a poor choice of words in my response.
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Last edited by onetwo_threefour; 11-14-2012 at 10:03 AM. Reason: giving a link for better info
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:49 PM   #44
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:27 AM   #45
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Is an agreement not to file for bankruptcy or file a consumer proposal enforceable? As a trustee, if an insolvent guy came to you for advice and said he already worked out a payment plan with a large creditor on condition he didn't make a filing, would you be bound by that? I know a fair number of guys try to work out little side deals to keep the ship afloat. How do those affect the insolvent guy's position?
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:07 AM   #46
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:25 PM   #47
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