MLB Offseason Thread - Page 3 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

TitovFTW · 11-14-2012, 07:16 PM

Didn't think Dickey deserved to win by that much, considering the insane year Kershaw had.

Hunter had a great season last year, he's a mess in Center though, but has value as a corner outfielder. I don't think he's that good of a player, he's old and had put together some awful seasons before last year. Jim Leyland will misuse him horribly I'm sure of it, hopefully he does play Center field so the Tigers can have the worst defensive team in baseball.

chalms04 · 11-14-2012, 08:08 PM

@WBCBaseball Today's #WBC lineups posted. Johnny Damon will bat 3rd & DH for #Thailand vs. #Philippines, 10:30pmET. Follow LIVE at http://www.worldbaseballclassic.com .

lol wut?

Sylvanfan · 11-15-2012, 12:40 PM

Well Cabrera gets the MVP for being the triple crown winner....cue the Sabremetrics crowd to get their pitch forks out for not selecting Mike Trout.

Had the Angles been any good in September I think Trout would have had a better shot. But they faded off a fair bit, which I think made it tough for voters to give the MVP to a guy who wasn't in the league the first month and a half.

TitovFTW · 11-15-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Well Cabrera gets the MVP for being the triple crown winner....cue the Sabremetrics crowd to get their pitch forks out for not selecting Mike Trout.

Had the Angles been any good in September I think Trout would have had a better shot. But they faded off a fair bit, which I think made it tough for voters to give the MVP to a guy who wasn't in the league the first month and a half.

Was going to post something on this before your post, so please don't take this as an attack against your post but just my thoughts on the situation.

You don't even have to factor in Sabermetrics to see Trout had a much better season, all you need to do is realize base running and defense matter and Trout is elite at both of them and Cabrerra is awful at them.

The idea of the Angels as a team and their record being any good in September shouldn't matter at all, especially when you consider the insane numbers Trout put up in that month with a slash line of 289/.400/.500. The Angels just played in a much stronger division then the Tigers did.

I'd say 99% of people who "believe" in Sabermetrics also believe stats need to be used in context. They're not the be all and end all of any argument. People try to pass anyone who "believes" in them to be computer nerds who never actually watch the game or know anything about them. The reason for Sabermetrics is simply, if you're going to judge players on stats, use ones that actually give you an accurate measure of a player. I don't think anyone in the world can make a viable case to batting average or RBI's meaning anything and being horribly flawed statistics. The fact that Miguel Cabrerra came up to bat with something like 90 more batters on base then Trout this season, tells you everything you need to know about RBI's.

The "old boys" of baseball will continue to mock anyone who is "dumb" enough to look in depth at a players statistics, and Cabrera will be voted MVP tonight.

Jason14h · 11-15-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

You don't even have to factor in Sabermetrics to see Trout had a much better season, all you need to do is realize base running and defense matter and Trout is elite at both of them and Cabrerra is awful at them.

Remember, it is MVP, not best player.

If you removed both players, I would argue Det would have lost more games then if you remove Trout from the Angels (Although they were doing terrible before he arrived)

TitovFTW · 11-15-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Remember, it is MVP, not best player.

If you removed both players, I would argue Det would have lost more games then if you remove Trout from the Angels (Although they were doing terrible before he arrived)

Wouldn't we able to simplify this argument with WAR then? A stat that was created to show us how many wins for a team a player is actually worth?

troutman · 11-15-2012, 03:52 PM

http://www.sfgate.com/giants/shea/ar...ks-4035164.php

It's tough to be stunned anymore by player contracts, especially with teams about to get filthier than filthy rich from three TV contracts. Fox, Turner and ESPN are paying $1.5 billion annually from 2014 to 2021 - $750 million more than before.An extra $25 million per year for all 30 clubs.

That doesn't count local TV revenue. The Dodgers sold for 2.15 billion Guggenheim bucks because of a local TV-rights package that'll top $200 million annually. No wonder they took on all those Boston players and re-signed reliever Brandon League for three years and $22.5 million, setting the tone for the Affeldt negotiations.

The Angels and Rangers also have sweetheart TV deals, both topping $1 billion. The Yankees get $90 million a year, the Red Sox $60 million. Plus, both get a bunch more as part owners of their networks.

Don't feel sorry for the Giants, whose deal with Comcast runs through 2032 as part of a 25-year arrangement signed before the 2008 season. It's not a set amount annually but more of a partnership in which they get a third of all revenue, so every time cable or satellite packages go up in price, the Giants get a piece of the action.

Plus, they're part owners in Comcast.

TitovFTW · 11-15-2012, 04:59 PM

Old ignorant white baseball reporters are still old ignorant white baseball reporters

KootenayFlamesFan · 11-15-2012, 05:09 PM

Cabrera wins AL MVP, Buster Posey wins the NL.

edit: Cabrera actually beat Trout by quite a large margin, gaining 22 of 28 first place ballots.

Posey received 27 of 32 first place ballots, next closest was Ryan Braun who received 3.

TitovFTW · 11-15-2012, 05:16 PM

Favorite part of these awards this year is that ballots are made public. Someone actually gave Fernando Rodney and Raul Ibanez in his top 10 for MVP votes and number 10 was Hunter Freaking Pence. These are the people deciding these awards!!!!! ugh

troutman · 11-15-2012, 05:17 PM

Posey reminds me of Tom Brady. He comes in as a rookie mid-way through the season, and leads the team to two championships in three years. A leader, a winner and an MVP.

Sylvanfan · 11-15-2012, 10:34 PM

Posey was a pretty easy choice. I wonder if Trout had those extra 20 games to score 18 more runs, hit 5 more home runs, steal 8 more bases if it would have swayed the voters. Really had the Angels not had such a cluster of outfielders in Wells, Abreu, Morales, Hunter, Trumbo, and Bourjos to start the season who knows.

Cabrera did have a great offensive year, but his defence is bad, and let's face it, the only reason teams don't walk him is because Prince Fielder is hitting behind him. Whereas Mike Trout is a guy teams try to avoid putting on base, because of what he can do when he gets on.

TitovFTW · 11-16-2012, 05:22 AM

The Angels willingly took on the Vernon Wells contract. Boggles my mind still to this day

fundmark19 · 11-16-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Favorite part of these awards this year is that ballots are made public. Someone actually gave Fernando Rodney and Raul Ibanez in his top 10 for MVP votes and number 10 was Hunter Freaking Pence. These are the people deciding these awards!!!!! ugh

You do know Rodney broke the ERA for relief record this year right? It isn't like he was just some mediocre closer. The record was set in 1990 so it isn't like it is broken all the time.

ERA (0.60), allowing five earned runs over 742/3 innings that is mighty impressive

Drake · 11-16-2012, 01:53 PM

Now that Gerald Laird has passed his physical, Atlanta has found their backup/starter for the season as he signed a two year deal with them.

GirlySports · 11-20-2012, 02:14 PM

I think I'm going to keep an eye on the Royals this year. They signed Guthrie today (3/25). They signed Erwin Santana earlier in the summer.

If Santana and Guthrie pitch well and Odorizzi is okay, why can't that team compete with the Tigers and Sox even with no more pitching help? I think they're going to hit much better, given that they didn't get much from Hosmer, Cain, or Perez last year and Myers is likely much better than Francoer.

It's quite possible that it won't take 90 wins to take the title. In a division that is this bad, 90 wins doesn't take much of a team.

TitovFTW · 11-21-2012, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fundmark19

You do know Rodney broke the ERA for relief record this year right? It isn't like he was just some mediocre closer. The record was set in 1990 so it isn't like it is broken all the time.

ERA (0.60), allowing five earned runs over 742/3 innings that is mighty impressive

He's a relief pitcher. He had a great year. It's impressive but it's insane to think he deserved even 1 mvp vote considering he pitched 74 innings of baseball the entire season.

TitovFTW · 11-21-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think I'm going to keep an eye on the Royals this year. They signed Guthrie today (3/25). They signed Erwin Santana earlier in the summer.

If Santana and Guthrie pitch well and Odorizzi is okay, why can't that team compete with the Tigers and Sox even with no more pitching help? I think they're going to hit much better, given that they didn't get much from Hosmer, Cain, or Perez last year and Myers is likely much better than Francoer.

It's quite possible that it won't take 90 wins to take the title. In a division that is this bad, 90 wins doesn't take much of a team.

Rosenthal wrote in his article today he didn't think Santana and Guthrie were bad signings, as long as you get an ace to go along wit them. Jeremy Guthrie at a #2 or #3 spot makes it tough to contend. They're so close though, they just need to spend some money or make a big move to really give them a #1 guy.

They do have an insane amount of young positional talent coming up is insane. They've neglected pitching somewhat but they are stocked on the farm with guys that can hit. I really hope this is their year.

Flickered Flame · 11-21-2012, 06:57 PM

Kuroda signed back with the Yankees and Boston is close to signing Jonny Gomes from Oakland. Once the A's picked up Chris Young, Gomes wasn't coming back.

TitovFTW · 11-21-2012, 07:50 PM

Gomes is a perfect platoon player as he destroys left handed pitching but his defense is atrocious and asking him to be an everyday outfielder is not a smart move. I think fans can get a better understanding now of what an average contract looks like in 2012 with Gomes getting 10 million over 2 years. Cabrera for 2/16 looks even better now.