Bulking while active with sports activites????

[Azure]

Originally Posted by trew

Check out Lyle' McDonald's article on meal frequency. I think it is a pretty good write up on the topic:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ass-gains.html

Here's probably the most relevant section of the article (the rest goes into research and backing for these conclusions):

So, according to Lyle, if you eat anything of substance, you can wait 5 hours between meals. If you eat something that contains a lot of casein (whole milk products), you probably will be able to wait 8 hours. (It's no wonder that Mark Rippetoe's single line of diet advice for mass gainers is "drink a gallon of milk every day").

I should also mention that Lyle's article is debating a program for "optimal" mass gaining. People gain decent mass on all sorts of different diets. (Check out leangains.com for the other end of the extreme: lean massing while doing 16 hour fasts... essentially skipping 1 meal a day and eating big during an 8 hour window).

At the end of the day, you can gain mass pretty much with any type of diet as long as you get adequate calories and nutrients (especially proteins/aminos). If you become a social hermit because of your workout/diet, you are doing something wrong.

I read something like this recently as well from a renowned trainer. The whole idea was that if you can't find the time to eat 5-6 meals per day, it is possible to get what your body needs in less meals.

Sometimes that calls for eating up to 80g of protein in a single sitting, which is a lot of chicken.

In terms of additional protein/calories, what I do these days is fill up a 800mL container with milk, and put 2 scoops protein powder in there, which at 35g per scoop gives me 70g protein in the powder, and then roughly 30g protein in the milk, which is an additional 100g per day. Works rather well. Not that hard to drink either. Half in the morning, half in the afternoon.

[likwid888]

Originally Posted by NBC

I realize that this is terribly off topic but my understanding is that you should not be keeping cooked rice around, even if it is properly stored in the fridge, for longer than 48 hours. This is due to the presence of Bacillus cereus.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/...eus/index.html

Interesting read. I usually cook a batch every 3-4 days and have not gotten sick off it yet. Maybe I'll reduce that to every 2 days now.

[trew]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

If you think eating more helps you gain muscle, you are an idiot.

If you think you can gain muscle without eating a caloric surplus, you are wasting your time.

(Edit... or is this another meme reference? Fitness is worse than religion for not knowing when people are serious).

[TurnedTheCorner]

Swollen bros ITT

[nightfx]

in on covert misc gathering

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by trew

If you think you can gain muscle without eating a caloric surplus, you are wasting your time.

(Edit... or is this another meme reference? Fitness is worse than religion for not knowing when people are serious).

I would love to know why the internet took this idea and latched onto it.

Muscle hypertrophy is limited by protein, not by calories. Sure, if you're at a huge caloric deficit you may have some limitations in muscle hypertrophy, but the idea that you need to eat a bunch of #### to have muscle is absurd. Definitely one of the top misconceptions in fitness, and while I understand ignorance, I can't stand the fact that people spread this stupid, baseless idea to everyone and their Grandmother.

Right now protein recommendations are based on a deficit model of nitrogen loss. There's some argument within the Dietician community, but generally 1.4 - 1.8 g / kg of body weight per day is more than enough protein for anyone building muscle.

For example, to gain 1lb of muscle in 1 week (an overestimate for most.. unless you're just starting and hitting the weights hard and have a basic adaptation to weight training).

Muscle is 22% protein. 454g (1lb) of muscle x 22% = 100g protein in 1lb muscle. Divide that by the week (7 days) = 14g protein extra per day. This would be on top of the protein recommendation for sedentary individuals which is 0.8g / kg / day, and on top of protein loss due to exercise (ie you must damage muscle to adapt it and hypertrophy).

Result: If you weight 200lbs = 73g (recommended daily intake for sedentary) + 14g (1lb muscle) + ~20g (loss; overestimate) = 106g protein / day. Azure gets that in one expensive shake.

Sure, if you're going from doing nothing to doing a ton of weight training you have to eat more to compensate for the extra calories you're burning.

I would love to prove that you don't need extra calories to build muscle, but that idea that you do is completely baseless. It's just not true.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Just so you know where I'm coming from on this, I'm a medical doctor, and I have a physics degree. So I know a few things about biology and energy.

For starters, muscle repair is an energy-intensive activity. When you shred a muscle during a work-out, you are not just burning calories by doing the workout. You are also burning calories during the repair process. You are taking digested simple amino acids, and assembling them into functioning sarcomeres and myofibrils. This involes a vast number of biological processes. Taking something simple, and making them into something complicated, requires moving a ton of entropy, all of which takes energy. Don't tell me how much protein is in a muscle, tell me how much energy it takes to make it. Building muscle takes more than just the protein that's being used up. It takes energy. Loads of it.

You're basically saying 'All it costs to build a car from scratch is a couple hundred dollars, because you've only got to pay for a few hundred kg of steel.'
We know what it's made of, but it takes a lot more than that to make it.

And that's just for starters.

There's also the whole endochrine side of things, which I'd say is even more important than just the amount of macronutients going in and out. I'd hardly call myself an expert on that subject (I wouldn't be surprised if there's fitness geeks on this forum that know more about the specifics than me). But I can assure you there's a whole heck of a lot more to it than "If you want to gain 10lbs of muscle just eat an extra 2.2lbs of protein."

The internet took to the idea that you need to eat lots to gain a lot of muscle muscle mass because it is correct.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Just so you know where I'm coming from on this, I'm a medical doctor, and I have a physics degree. So I know a few things about biology and energy.

For starters, muscle repair is an energy-intensive activity. When you shred a muscle during a work-out, you are not just burning calories by doing the workout. You are also burning calories during the repair process. You are taking digested simple amino acids, and assembling them into functioning sarcomeres and myofibrils. This involes a vast number of biological processes. Taking something simple, and making them into something complicated, requires moving a ton of entropy, all of which takes energy. Don't tell me how much protein is in a muscle, tell me how much energy it takes to make it. Building muscle takes more than just the protein that's being used up. It takes energy. Loads of it.

You're basically saying 'All it costs to build a car from scratch is a couple hundred dollars, because you've only got to pay for a few hundred kg of steel.'
We know what it's made of, but it takes a lot more than that to make it.

And that's just for starters.

There's also the whole endochrine side of things, which I'd say is even more important than just the amount of macronutients going in and out. I'd hardly call myself an expert on that subject (I wouldn't be surprised if there's fitness geeks on this forum that know more about the specifics than me). But I can assure you there's a whole heck of a lot more to it than "If you want to gain 10lbs of muscle just eat an extra 2.2lbs of protein."

The internet took to the idea that you need to eat lots to gain a lot of muscle muscle mass because it is correct.

^^^ Great Post. However, I'd still add that it is possible to function at a calorie deficit and put on muslce easily, if you have significant fat stores. The edocrine system will stimulate the body to break down fat and simultaneously put on muscle, even if you are at a calorie deficit, as long as there is significant fat to break down.

If you have very little fat stored, and you want to put on muscle while being in a calorie deficit, yes the laws of physics and your own physiology will prevent you from gaining muscle mass.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

If you think eating more helps you gain muscle, you are an idiot.

Or maybe the guy calling a ton of people idiots is the real idiot? Try proving that eating more does not in fact help someone build muscle and then you can throw around the idiot word. Personally I thought it was common knowledge that people looking to add muscle should be eating more. Especially several hours before working out and right after working out. Common sense not idiocy is what it seems to be.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Plus the fact that you have to increase your calorie intake to keep up with your increased basal metabolic rate as you put on muscle.

And eating more calories directly produces muscle hypertrophy through mechanisms like the insulin-like-growth-hormone axis.

And as mentioned, you can gain muscle mass while calorie neutral or even in a calorie deficit, but your 1lb/week isn't going to last long unless you're of the mumu-and-scooter crowd.

Thinking that you need to eat more to gain a lot of muscle mass does not make you an idiot.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Just so you know where I'm coming from on this, I'm a medical doctor, and I have a physics degree. So I know a few things about biology and energy.

For starters, muscle repair is an energy-intensive activity. When you shred a muscle during a work-out, you are not just burning calories by doing the workout. You are also burning calories during the repair process. You are taking digested simple amino acids, and assembling them into functioning sarcomeres and myofibrils. This involes a vast number of biological processes. Taking something simple, and making them into something complicated, requires moving a ton of entropy, all of which takes energy. Don't tell me how much protein is in a muscle, tell me how much energy it takes to make it. Building muscle takes more than just the protein that's being used up. It takes energy. Loads of it.

You're basically saying 'All it costs to build a car from scratch is a couple hundred dollars, because you've only got to pay for a few hundred kg of steel.'
We know what it's made of, but it takes a lot more than that to make it.

And that's just for starters.

There's also the whole endochrine side of things, which I'd say is even more important than just the amount of macronutients going in and out. I'd hardly call myself an expert on that subject (I wouldn't be surprised if there's fitness geeks on this forum that know more about the specifics than me). But I can assure you there's a whole heck of a lot more to it than "If you want to gain 10lbs of muscle just eat an extra 2.2lbs of protein."

The internet took to the idea that you need to eat lots to gain a lot of muscle muscle mass because it is correct.

The argument is that you need to eat an extremely hypercaloric diet in order to gain muscle.

You go on to say:

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

And as mentioned, you can gain muscle mass while calorie neutral or even in a calorie deficit

So I don't see what you're disagreeing with me about?

[TheSutterDynasty]

To clarify, I was trying to simplify the equation from the protein side of things. Obviously if you only eat protein you'd have a host of other issues aside from just the ability to build muscle.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

If you think eating more helps you gain muscle, you are an idiot.

I'm disagreeing with you about this.

For the many reasons that I have explained.

Eating more helps you gain muscle. I am not an idiot.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

To clarify, I was trying to simplify the equation from the protein side of things. Obviously if you only eat protein you'd have a host of other issues aside from just the ability to build muscle.

And from the carbohydrate side of things, you are still wrong. Eating more helps you gain muscle, for the reasons explained as well as many others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!
And as mentioned, you can gain muscle mass while calorie neutral or even in a calorie deficit

So I don't see what you're disagreeing with me about?

I also clarified that this is extremely temporary unless you are very overweight. Not a general rule, that anyone who disagrees with it is clearly an idiot. It is a temporary exception.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

nm

[3 Justin 3]

Every time a thread is started that involves muscles, supplementation, going to the gym, TheSutterDynasty always has to come in and ruin everything.

I bet he's a manlet and is just pissed off at the world.

[Matata]

Back on Topic, eat these things, constantly:
http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recip...?recipe=662771

I was looking at the P90x diet, and they want you to eat a protein bar before and after workouts. These things are cheap, delicious and don`t need to be baked. I find it`s also good to buy a 2lb bag of peanuts and constantly be eating handfuls all day.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

nm

Why don't we simplify this.

I'm saying that if you're in caloric neutral / maintenance you will gain the exact same amount of muscle that you would if you were eating in any range of a hypercaloric diet.

In other words, if you are eating enough to be gaining adipose tissue while you're gaining muscle then you're eating too much.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Every time a thread is started that involves muscles, supplementation, going to the gym, TheSutterDynasty always has to come in and ruin everything.

I bet he's a manlet and is just pissed off at the world.

Aren't you 6"10 and 140 lbs?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

I would love to know why the internet took this idea and latched onto it.

Muscle hypertrophy is limited by protein, not by calories. Sure, if you're at a huge caloric deficit you may have some limitations in muscle hypertrophy, but the idea that you need to eat a bunch of #### to have muscle is absurd. Definitely one of the top misconceptions in fitness, and while I understand ignorance, I can't stand the fact that people spread this stupid, baseless idea to everyone and their Grandmother.

Right now protein recommendations are based on a deficit model of nitrogen loss. There's some argument within the Dietician community, but generally 1.4 - 1.8 g / kg of body weight per day is more than enough protein for anyone building muscle.

For example, to gain 1lb of muscle in 1 week (an overestimate for most.. unless you're just starting and hitting the weights hard and have a basic adaptation to weight training).

Muscle is 22% protein. 454g (1lb) of muscle x 22% = 100g protein in 1lb muscle. Divide that by the week (7 days) = 14g protein extra per day. This would be on top of the protein recommendation for sedentary individuals which is 0.8g / kg / day, and on top of protein loss due to exercise (ie you must damage muscle to adapt it and hypertrophy).

Result: If you weight 200lbs = 73g (recommended daily intake for sedentary) + 14g (1lb muscle) + ~20g (loss; overestimate) = 106g protein / day. Azure gets that in one expensive shake.

Sure, if you're going from doing nothing to doing a ton of weight training you have to eat more to compensate for the extra calories you're burning.

I would love to prove that you don't need extra calories to build muscle, but that idea that you do is completely baseless. It's just not true.

Not sure what the personal shot is all about, although it seems to be right on par with your posts.

Due to a variety of different reasons I can't always get enough protein from optimal sources. This is why I try to at least drink the shake every single day. Obviously if you have the time, it is a better idea to get your protein from actual food.

As for how much, you can debate it all you want, but I have had more success eating close to 200g per day than I have had eating 100g per day on the same lifting program.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Aren't you 6"10 and 140 lbs?

No.