Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #41
East Coast Flame
Powerplay Quarterback
 
East Coast Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by valo403 View Post
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/sports-car-seiz...ights-1.694558

Not sure where this is now, but the permanent forfeiture angle is definitely happening.

...the article I posted was an update to the article you just posted.
East Coast Flame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:11 PM   #42
Nyah
First Line Centre
 
Nyah's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The Kilt & Caber
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother View Post
Is this if they are abandoned by their owners, or is it a blanket policy on all seizures?
It depends on the offense:

Last September the police in Vancouver seized 13 high end sports cars for street racing at speeds up to 200 km/h:

Quote:
The drivers have each been fined $196 and will have to pay for the cost of impounding and storing their vehicles for seven days.

However, RCMP Supt. Norm Gaumont said police are looking at tougher measures.

"So we've asked our team to be looking at the possibility of criminal charges and ... if we have enough evidence to lay a charge of dangerous driving. We're also going to be looking at seizing the vehicles for good," Gaumont said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...impounded.html
Nyah is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nyah For This Useful Post:
Old 09-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #43
undercoverbrother
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
I don't know that I'm necessarily concerned about vehicle age so much as I am about vehicle upkeep and maintenance. I've heard vehicles that were two years old at the most with brakes squealing like fingernails on a chalkboard. I'll take a ten year old car with good brakes and suspension over a two year old car that's 20,000 KM past its last service date.

I agree with the line of sight comment to a point, but consider the roads where people are traveling at such high speeds, namely Hwy#2 and Hwy #1. Neither of these highways suffer from problems with line-of-sight being limited. They're flat, straight (or very slightly curved) divided highways with excellent sight-lines. As for reaction time, also agreed, but I notice people have a tendency not to look ahead when driving. Something I learned when being taught to drive (and suspect most people were at least told) was to look well ahead of the traffic in front of me to determine potential hazards and changes to the road conditions. While reaction time can't necessarily be improved with driver training, driving defensively can lessen your reliance on reactionary driving.
Agreed maintenance is a big issue, how do we address that? Regular inspections, every 2, or 3, or 4 years, to be allowed to renew your registration (not sure I think this is a good idea).

Perhaps, driving school is mandatory (maybe it is, not sure). I have had a number of driving classes, and the points you make are true.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993

Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
undercoverbrother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:14 PM   #44
valo403
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
My next sentence in the quote addresses this exact point - you are always going to have outliers who are going to drive too fast for their abilities, their vehicle, or conditions. But additional training will make the roads overall safer and reviewing the speed limits will help us bring the limits in line with the 85th percentile speed.
Sure it will, but it won't do anything for those outliers, and that's who this targets. The type of people who are driving at massively excessive speeds aren't the type of people to have their behavior curbed by extra training.
valo403 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:14 PM   #45
Reaper
Franchise Player
 
Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm right behind you
Exp:
Default

Apparently, I don't know what I'm talking about.
__________________
Don't fear me. Trust me.

Last edited by Reaper; 09-21-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:15 PM   #46
Swarly
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Swarly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother View Post
From Transport Canada:
thanks for the info, but no where in there does it differentiate speeders doing 50+ vs 10 over the speed limit.

I am fine with increased fines etc. but seems silly to not be upping the fines for going 10-49 over and then say, you hit 50 over I'm taking your car. A real big jump in punishment with little data given (in the article anyway) about excessive speeding results.

I guess this is all hypothetical argument until they actually pin down what is excessive and what the duration of seizure would be.
Swarly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #47
valo403
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by East Coast Flame View Post
...the article I posted was an update to the article you just posted.
Whoops, sorry about that. Misread the date on the one I posted, thought it was current.
valo403 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 12:30 PM   #48
bomber317
Powerplay Quarterback
 
bomber317's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
Instead of treating a symptom (speeding), why not address the cause? Why are people going that fast? A person generally won't go faster than they feel is safe or reasonable, and that does not necessarily mean "at or under the speed limit". I don't drive beyond my abilities, the capabilities of my vehicle, or the conditions of the roadway on which I'm traveling (including traffic density and weather). You're always going to have the outliers who exceed that point and this will do nothing to stop them.
I don't agree with this, mostly because 10 years ago what I thought was safe and reasonable when I was driving has changed in the 10 years of experience I've had. There will always be a difference in opinion on one's ability to drive. Your suggestion of training and revisiting speed limits will work for the drivers that don't excessively speed and who not the outliers. I do agree that we need a better fix for the root cause of general driving.

The cause for excessive speeding won't be solved by revisiting speed limits, or training. So why not deter the outliers from excessive speeding with harsher penalties? I'm not sure if impounding the car is the answer, maybe a combination of that and having a greater penalty with license suspension.
bomber317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 03:08 PM   #49
puckluck2
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother View Post
From Transport Canada:
What about stats from deaths related to people failing to know how 4 way stop signs operate?
puckluck2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 03:16 PM   #50
undercoverbrother
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iginla View Post
What about stats from deaths related to people failing to know how 4 way stop signs operate?

What about stats death related to people crushed by a big foot coming down from the sky?
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993

Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
undercoverbrother is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to undercoverbrother For This Useful Post:
Old 09-21-2012, 03:18 PM   #51
Knalus
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Knalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Do not support.

There is no need to increase the penalties from what they are at now. It's unnecessary and heavy handed.
Knalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 04:10 PM   #52
sclitheroe
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
How about we review the speed limits and see if there's a possibility that they're too low for the highway? We're driving vehicles with 21st century technology, abiding by speed limits from the 60s.
A 1000 kg car travelling at 110km/h has a kinetic energy of 450k Joules. Bump the speed up to 140km/h (only 27% more), and now you're dealing with 722 kJ of energy. Bump it up just 10km/h more (only 36%), and now we've got 800kJ.

I don't care how good a 21st century car is, a little more speed means you are working with basically twice as much kinetic energy. Handling,braking, and safety systems are of course better than they have ever been, but not by the square of the energy they are expected to handle, which is what kinectic energy increases by.

I'm not saying a competent driver can't handle a vehicle carrying exponentially higher levels of kinetic energy, but I am saying that the consequences of human error (by the driver or another vehicle) or mechanical failure are tremendously higher, and ramp up extremely quickly with even a few more km/h tacked on to vehicle speeds.
__________________
-Scott
sclitheroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #53
DownhillGoat
Franchise Player
 
DownhillGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarly View Post
are there stats out there showing the fatality rate of 50+ speeders vs others?

In the article it states that they gave out 89 tickets in July, a mere 0.21% of all speeding tickets given out.
I would imagine about as high as the percentages of drunk drivers between that deadly .05-.08 mark that are involved in fatalities.
DownhillGoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DownhillGoat For This Useful Post:
Old 09-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #54
Cecil Terwilliger
That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
 
Cecil Terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunkstyle View Post
I would imagine about as high as the percentages of drunk drivers between that deadly .05-.08 mark that are involved in fatalities.
That makes no sense whatsoever, even if you're joking and taking a jab at the stupid new drinking and driving laws.
Cecil Terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 04:29 PM   #55
To Be Quite Honest
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iginla View Post
What about stats from deaths related to people failing to know how 4 way stop signs operate?
Instead of posting the question look it up! I know you got the skillz!
To Be Quite Honest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 04:35 PM   #56
Hans Landa
Self Lifetime Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

I sold my motorcycle immediately after Ontario implemented this law.

The law is what it is... my main problem with it is that the cops get to play Judge and Jury right there on the side of the road and ensure you are screwed out of a ton of money without having your day in court.
That kind of crap doesn't sit well with me. Neither do the speed limits.

What's the point of all these advancements in vehicle technology if we continue to slow ourselves down?

I don't care either way, as I don't speed in excess of 130km/h anyways... though if I had a bike again I'd certainly have a rough time of it.
When is this stupid race track opening? News of it just died off... I'm guessing the project has as well.
Hans Landa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 04:39 PM   #57
To Be Quite Honest
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

I'd admit that I go 128 kph up the QEII, but that is because my RCMP buddy says 130kph and you'll be pulled over or run a greater risk of the red and blue probing you.
To Be Quite Honest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 06:32 PM   #58
jar_e
Franchise Player
 
jar_e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

FWIW, police in Alberta can already seize cars for 30 or 60 days if a driver is suspended already.
jar_e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 06:39 PM   #59
SebC
tromboner
 
SebC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sclitheroe View Post
A 1000 kg car travelling at 110km/h has a kinetic energy of 450k Joules. Bump the speed up to 140km/h (only 27% more), and now you're dealing with 722 kJ of energy. Bump it up just 10km/h more (only 36%), and now we've got 800kJ.

I don't care how good a 21st century car is, a little more speed means you are working with basically twice as much kinetic energy. Handling,braking, and safety systems are of course better than they have ever been, but not by the square of the energy they are expected to handle, which is what kinectic energy increases by.

I'm not saying a competent driver can't handle a vehicle carrying exponentially higher levels of kinetic energy, but I am saying that the consequences of human error (by the driver or another vehicle) or mechanical failure are tremendously higher, and ramp up extremely quickly with even a few more km/h tacked on to vehicle speeds.
On the other hand, if you're going in a straight line with a lane on either side and the neareast car is miles ahead of you, you basically need to have a stroke to get into an accident. Slow down for curves, slow down for traffic, and you'll be fine.
SebC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 06:47 PM   #60
To Be Quite Honest
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC View Post
On the other hand, if you're going in a straight line with a lane on either side and the neareast car is miles ahead of you, you basically need to have a stroke to get into an accident. Slow down for curves, slow down for traffic, and you'll be fine.
I'm all for an autobahn in Canada. 4 Lanes both ways and no speed limit from Vancouver to Ottawa skip Quebec and re-join in the Maritimes. Police the slow drivers.

The Autobahn has a regular speed of 130 kph.

Cheaper than a high-speed rail!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_autobahns

The German autobahns are famous for being some of the few public roads in the world without blanket speed limits for cars and motorbikes.
Speed limits do apply at junctions and other danger points, like sections under construction or in need of repair. Speed limits at non-construction sites are generally 100 km/h, 120 km/h, or even 130 km/h; construction sites have a usual speed limit of 80 km/h but may be as low as 60 km/h, or in very rare cases, even 40 km/h. Certain stretches have separate, and lower, speed limits used in cases of wet lanes or in order to reduce noise pollution during overnight hours (usually 10pm – 6am) or in the opposite way, because of increased traffic during daytime a speed limit of 120 km/h from 6am - 8pm is used.

dynamic traffic signs on an Autobahn


Some limits were imposed to reduce pollution and noise. Limits can also be temporarily put into place through dynamic traffic guidance systems that display the according traffic signs. On all Autobahns the advisory speed limit is 130 km/h, referred to in German as the Richtgeschwindigkeit; this speed is now binding and being involved in an accident driving at higher speeds can lead to the driver being deemed at least partially responsible due to "increased operating danger" (Erhöhte Betriebsgefahr). Studies showed that the average speed on autobahns without speed limits is about 140 km/h.[14] On average, on more than an eighth of the total length of the German autobahn network has no speed limit at all, about one third has a permanent limit, and the remaining parts have a temporary limit for different reasons.
In places without a general limit, there are mostly also no restrictions on overtaking (apart from the general prohibition of overtaking from the right side). Therefore, those traveling at high speeds may regularly encounter trucks running side-by-side at about just 90 km/h.[citation needed] In theory, trucks are not allowed to overtake others unless they drive 20 km/h faster than whomever they are overtaking, but truck drivers are generally under pressure to arrive in time; therefore, such laws are rarely enforced for economic and political reasons, especially since a lot of trucks are from other countries.[citation needed] The right lane of an autobahn is often crowded with trucks. In some zones with only two lanes in both directions and no speed limit, but a special overtaking restriction for trucks and/or cars pulling trailers. Another German restriction says that trucks are usually not allowed to drive before 22:00 on Sundays and national holidays, except for trucks carrying perishable goods and certain other exceptions such as military vehicles.
Some modern cars with a very powerful engine can reach speeds of well over 300 km/h (190 mph). Most large car manufacturers, especially the German ones, follow a gentlemen's agreement by electronically limiting the top speed of their cars – with the exception of some top of the range models or engines – to 250 km/h (155 mph) for safety reasons (such as inexperienced drivers or risk of tire failure, especially when underinflated). Yet, these limiters can be deactivated, so speeds up to 300 km/h (190 mph) might arise on the German autobahn. But due to other traffic, such speeds are mostly not attainable. Most unlimited sections of the autobahn are located outside urban and densely populated areas. The largest part of this route has no speed limit.
Vehicles unable to attain speeds in excess of 60 km/h are not allowed to use the autobahn. Though this limit is not really high for most modern vehicles, it prevents very small cars (e.g. quads) and motor-scooters (e.g. mopeds) from using autobahns. To comply with this limit, several heavy-duty trucks in Germany (e.g. for carrying tanks or cranes) have a design speed of 62 km/h (usually denoted by a round black-on-white sign with "62" on it). There is no general minimum speed but drivers are not allowed to drive unnecessarily slowly (under 80 km/h when there is no speed limit, for instance), because this would lead to significant traffic disturbance.
The following map with its associated legend shows the speed limits applied to different sections of the autobahn network.

Last edited by To Be Quite Honest; 09-21-2012 at 06:53 PM.
To Be Quite Honest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:00 AM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy