Edmonton child found in locked car on hot day

[Ben_in_Canada]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Not at 9pm

The thermometer is in the car..let's see how hot baby is gonna get

Why on earth are you even debating this?
Was it your window that got smashed or something?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ben_in_Canada

Why on earth are you even debating this?
Was it your window that got smashed or something?

Because parenting discussion should be based on rational arguments not fear. The Helen Love Joy style response to any parenting topics is not in the best interests of children. Villification of parents with different risk tolerances is not productive.

The question that needs to be asked in this case is was the child at immediate risk? The answer to that question is likely no.

[killer_carlson]

I wonder if the police made the parents sit in the back of their cruiser for a while while it was parked in the sun?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by GGG

Because parenting discussion should be based on rational arguments not fear. The Helen Love Joy style response to any parenting topics is not in the best interests of children. Villification of parents with different risk tolerances is not productive.

The question that needs to be asked in this case is was the child at immediate risk? The answer to that question is likely no.

The article did mention that the guy waited for a while outside the vehicle waiting for the parents before he asked the police what he should do and went a ahead with breaking the window.

I know if I was waiting for longer than 5 minutes I might do the same thing.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Daradon

The article did mention that the guy waited for a while outside the vehicle waiting for the parents before he asked the police what he should do and went a ahead with breaking the window.

I know if I was waiting for longer than 5 minutes I might do the same thing.

No that is not what the article said:

Josh Steep, who was passing by around 9 p.m., noticed the child and was concerned because of the 30C highs so he did the only thing he could think of: He called the police.

"We called 911 and we discussed it with the respondent," Steep said. "I said, 'What do you want me to do? He said, 'I know what I'd do if I was you,' and that was good enough for me."

After smashing one of the car's windows, and lacerating his finger in the process, Steep pulled the child from the car and waited with her outside until both the child's parents and police arrived on scene.

He waited around AFTER smashing the window.

Furthermore, if the heat was such a concern, why didn't he request an EMT be dispatched to check the kid out? Why didn't 911 dispatch suggest this course of action?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

No that is not what the article said:


He waited around AFTER smashing the window.

Furthermore, if the heat was such a concern, why didn't he request an EMT be dispatched to check the kid out? Why didn't 911 dispatch suggest this course of action?

Le sigh... You must have skipped over the part that said...

"We don't recommend that people go out there smashing cars every time they see a kid in a car, but he did the right thing. He called the police. Given the amount of time that had passed by, and the temperature, he made the right call."

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Le sigh... You must have skipped over the part that said...

"We don't recommend that people go out there smashing cars every time they see a kid in a car, but he did the right thing. He called the police. Given the amount of time that had passed by, and the temperature, he made the right call."

I figured that was in reference to the time elapsed from when the 911 call began and police responded, but he certainly might have waited around a bit before calling 911.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Who gives a crap if it was ideal conditions for leaving a 3 year old in the car? You are still insanely idiotic to leave a child in a car unattended. I'm guessing these parents probably go out to the bar and leave the kid home alone hoping for the best.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I figured that was in reference to the time elapsed from when the 911 call began and police responded, but he certainly might have waited around a bit before calling 911.

Yeah, or on the phone with 911. It probably could have been written better, but that's how I understood it. Some time certainly had passed. Not just because of how it was written, but I have a hard time thinking he broke the window within 30 secs of the call getting answered. I doubt it was:

'Hello, 911'
'Hi, yes I am calling because there is a small child left in a car in a parking lot on this hot day and I don't see the parents. What should I do?'
'Well I know what I would do.'
'Ok,'
BOOM!

Just as I'm sure he didn't pull out the phone as soon as he locked eyes on the car. He probably looked around the car, asked people around it, looked to the entrance of the store, maybe even approached the entrance and asked some people in the area, etc.

I'm sure there was some waiting, even looking around for the parents before the call, as well as some waiting and humming and hawing while on the phone.

As a few have said, I'm not sure the amount of time is the biggest argument or concern in this situation anyway. Kid should not have been left there period. A broken window is a small price to pay for putting this kid and this man in this position.

[Table 5]

I think the point of GGG and sclitheroe is that:
1) Yes, this was poor parenting.
2) But let's not freak out like the world just ended every time a parent makes a mistake.

[Ben_in_Canada]

Originally Posted by GGG

Because parenting discussion should be based on rational arguments not fear. The Helen Love Joy style response to any parenting topics is not in the best interests of children. Villification of parents with different risk tolerances is not productive.

The question that needs to be asked in this case is was the child at immediate risk? The answer to that question is likely no.

I understand and agree that as a whole society has become overly protective and often fear is the number one catalyst.
But how is not rational for a human being to show concern for a child?
How would the guy feel if he thought nah, it'll be ok, went about his business and then watched on the 11 o'clock news that a child was found dead, left in a car at the walmart.
As mentioned this wasn't running into the kwik-E mart, where you can for the most part keep eyes on the car and be in & out in a reasonably short time.
I would do the same 10 out of 10 times.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I disagree. My vehicle can still get overly stuffy and warm at that hour. Windows closed with a person breathing inside?

Anyway, what in blue hell were these parents doing leaving their kid in a Walmart parking lot? You don't just "run in to Walmart" the way you run into Macs. You can't see your kid through the front window. It takes at least 15 minutes to even buy a pack of gum in that store. How much trouble can a three year old kid get into in 15 minutes? He can figure out how to unlock the door and go for a walk. He can get kidnapped by one of the many creepy-as-fu*k people that lurk in the Walmart parking lot. He can find a quarter in in the seat cushions and choke on it. The fact that it was 30 degrees just makes an already idiotic situation much, much worse.

This is not an over reaction. Those people deserved more than their window smashed. In my opinion, of course.

I'm guessing by that time of night the heat wouldn't even have been the biggest issue anyway (which is still bad enough). Its the fact that the child of that age is unattended in a parking lot for at least 15 minutes as you've said. All it would take is for the kid to figure out how to unlock the doors and he could be running around the lot potentially getting hit by a car or abducted by some perv or molester.

Just terrible parenting.

[Rathji]

^
A 2 year old would be in a car seat, and probably not able to free themselves.

Just from my experience.

[Locke]

I think more kids should be left unattended. Kids are too entitled these days!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ben_in_Canada

I understand and agree that as a whole society has become overly protective and often fear is the number one catalyst.
But how is not rational for a human being to show concern for a child?
How would the guy feel if he thought nah, it'll be ok, went about his business and then watched on the 11 o'clock news that a child was found dead, left in a car at the walmart.
As mentioned this wasn't running into the kwik-E mart, where you can for the most part keep eyes on the car and be in & out in a reasonably short time.
I would do the same 10 out of 10 times.

I wouldn't have smashed the window unless the child was unconscious and couldn't be woken by banging on the window.

I think calling the police was a good choice and I would have waited at the car until police or the parents arrived. I think the 911 operator gave poor advice to the person but I don't think the individual who noticed the kid did anything unreasonable.

[Ben_in_Canada]

N/m

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Rathji

^
A 2 year old would be in a car seat, and probably not able to free themselves.

Just from my experience.

Assuming they had the child in a car seat.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think these parents should be tied up and gang probed by a horde of zombies with dicks for teeth.

After that we make them sit in a hot car for a while and see how they like it.

Agreed. You arrange the anatomically correct zombies and I'll find a car...

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by GGG

I wouldn't have smashed the window unless the child was unconscious and couldn't be woken by banging on the window.

I think calling the police was a good choice and I would have waited at the car until police or the parents arrived. I think the 911 operator gave poor advice to the person but I don't think the individual who noticed the kid did anything unreasonable.

Dude... wha?

If the kid is unconscious the damage is probably already done. Especially to a child as opposed to an adult.

You've been watching to many action movies where people wake up from being unconscious with just a headache. In real life there are significant risks to any event like that.

Perhaps you'd just wait until the kid was panicking and banging on the glass?

It's a window man. Wow.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Assuming they had the child in a car seat.

I guess assuming the parent is a responsible one is probably out of the question in this context.