Obesity

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I've bored people with my story in a variety of other threads. My newspaper article is here:
http://www.yourottawaregion.com/print/1051637

That link doesn't give a before/after. For those who wish to have their minds blown, see here: http://www.yourottawaregion.com/news...in-weight-loss

That is incredibly impressive, and kudos to you for what you've accomplished.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Mmmm.... BMI = crap.

I have to agree with bcsoda.... this thread is absolutely disgusting. The absolute contempt people have for overweight people is sad. Half of this thread is making fun of fat people, the other half is just plain insulting.

Both of my parents grew up in poor families. So when they both got middle class jobs, they would take us out to A&W, and MacDonalds, and stock the pantry full of Joe Louis and potato chips. Nutrition wasn't that big of a thing in the 70s, especially for blue collar workers. So the whole family was overweight. My brother and I adopted the poor diet our parents set for us. I was made fun of, bullied, ridiculed... with comments very similar to those made in this very thread. I became depressed and that only made me eat more. I took solace in food. It seemed to be the only thing that brought any kind of happiness. In 2009 I topped out at 340 pounds. At some point I realized that I shouldn't give a #### what others think about me and the real problem is that I didn't like MYSELF.

I've bored people with my story in a variety of other threads. My newspaper article is here:
http://www.yourottawaregion.com/print/1051637

But I didn't lose the weight because people were making fun of me. I lost the weight DESPITE the ridicule. I hated going to the gym at 340 lbs because of the finger pointers and snickers. There was a fellow here that put an ad up on Kijiji offering to clean someone's pool for the summer if he could swim there during the day. He didn't want to go to a public pool and be laughed at for his weight. It's the attitudes shown in this thread that make people feel like absolute crap about themselves and their lives.

I have a question for you, and feel free to tell me to piss off or reply in a PM.

How hard was it to deal with the extra skin after you lost that much weight so quickly? Since school has finished for me, I am in the process of losing some weight and have noticed it hanging kind of strange. By the time I am done, I am worried that my skin will be hanging down a few inches over my belt.

[Devils'Advocate]

Rathji: HA! If I got pissed off every time someone asked me that question, I'd be a very angry person.

I went to Milwaukee last year and there was a bunch of us being recognized as "Century Award" winners. These are awards that the organization I belong to give out to people who have lost 100 pounds and managed to keep it off for a year. The woman next to me asked what I did about all my loose skin. I replied "I don't have very much". And she punched my shoulder. Hard. Said it wasn't fair.

Seriously, *I* can definitely see the loose skin when I stand in front of a mirror. So much so that I was considering a body lift, or at the very least a tummy tuck. But one day I went to the pool and my friend Gary was introducing me to a new guy and Gary told the fellow that I had lost 170 pounds. The guy said "No he didn't. If he lost 170 pounds he'd have loose skin and I don't see any." So I guess I'm just looking too closely. I decided not to spend the $5,000 on the tummy tuck.

When I visit other chapters in my organization (and have I ever been making the rounds!) I tell them that "How did you lose the weight?" is only the SECOND most common question I get. Next to "What did you do with all the loose skin?"

Now that's been a lot of rambling without a lot of answer. My organization produces a monthly magazine and just last month they had an article on loose skin. If you PM me your e-mail address, I'll send you the article. It confirms a lot of what I guessed the answer to be when asked.

The amount of loose skin you get is:
- indirectly proportional to your age
- directly proportional to your maximum weight
- indirectly proportional to the amount of time it took you to lose the weight
- indirectly proportional to the amount of exercise you do

So the younger you are, the less weight you had to loose, THE SLOWER YOU LOSE THE WEIGHT, THE MORE EXERCISE YOU DO, the more elasticity you get from the skin. There is also a lot of luck in terms of genetics, so I've told the rest of my family that they shouldn't use fear of loose skin as an excuse not to lose their weight as well.

BTW - since this is a common topic of discussion when I go to conferences and talk with others that have lost similar amounts of weight that I have, I have found that those that have the least problem with loose skin are those that did (a) swimming and (b) kickboxing/"boot camp"s. I don't understand the swimming since that seems to be mostly legs and arms, but kickboxing is *all* core work. Twisting and turning the midsection.

One fellow I met had a novel solution. He had lots of loose skin on his arms. So he started lifting weights. Now he's filled up the area with muscle instead of fat.

One last note on the topic. I met this fellow in Milwaukee last year:
http://www.shapefit.com/success/succ...s-kevin-c.html
Really great guy. Learned lots from him. He said that he was SERIOUSLY considering the surgery for health reasons. His folds of skin are so deep that he is getting rashes and sometimes gets infections because it's hard to wash between each and every fold of skin. In these cases, provincial health care WILL cover the cost of the body lift or tummy tuck. In my case, it would be considered cosmetic since I don't have nearly as much as Kevin does.

Hope that helps.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by dutchmule

In practice, obesity is more prevalent in low income households, which makes b/ and c/ fail: processed foods are the cheapest (and the worst for you), and low-income families have less money to spend (basically, you'd get a healthy snack like an apple or something, but all they can afford is Cheetos), and fast food is very cheap around those parts and takes way less time than cooking at home and low-income families have less time to cook cause they have to worry about other urgent stuff.

There's no doubt that the obesity epidemic is a huge, mufti-faceted issue. I was more speaking of a select portion of people to argue some points - I know a lot of overweight people who complain about being unhealthy but do little to change it.

Originally Posted by dutchmule

Like? Again, if you're poor, you can't afford therapy, and you also might not have time or energy for transcendental meditation or socializing or whatever. I know you can say "then make time for it", but it must be more complicated than that when you're behind all your bills and your kid is sick and you can't afford a sitter.
And if you just mean "come on, stop caring about what other people think", pretty sure it's very hard, that you have to have good friends to support you for that anyways, and that when you're being publicly bullied, made fun of, laughed at by loudmouths, this advice sounds pretty inadequate... I'm not saying some people can't do it, just that it's not an advice that works in general.

Again, I was talking about the same type of person, so this doesn't necessarily apply. I have had a lot of clients / seen a lot of people in the gym who have this complex that everyone is judging them even if people are just minding their own business. There are for sure idiots who make fun of them, but I think you just have to be mature in dealing with them. I mean, I've seen adults walk through a group of high school kids and the kids insult them, just because. Deal with the fools in the gym the same way.. just ignore it and if it gets bad, talk to management. Again, being low income greatly complicates things but I wasn't referring to that group.

This is interesting - do you know if it's any cancer, or more the colorectal and other gut-related cancers?

http://www.wcrf-uk.org/cancer_preven...and_cancer.php

There is strong evidence that being overweight increases the risk of the following cancers:

• Bowel
• Oesophagus
• Pancreas
• Kidney
• Endometrium (womb lining)
• Breast (in postmenopausal women)

Being overweight also probably increases the risk of gallbladder cancer.

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Overweight people (and I'm using the BMI classification terminology here) live longer, healthier lives than "normal weight" people. "Obese" people don't suffer from significantly increased health problems until their BMIs reach (going by memory here) 35 and up.

I'm not sure what to say other than this is wrong. Where did you read/hear this?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

That link doesn't give a before/after. For those who wish to have their minds blown, see here: http://www.yourottawaregion.com/news...in-weight-loss

That is incredibly impressive, and kudos to you for what you've accomplished.

Before:

In Milwaukee, the day after being given my award for "Most Weight Lost in One Year", I ran my first half-marathon:

[jayswin]

My god, that's amazing. The best part is, you don't have that awkward look that most people have after losing ridiculous amounts of weight. You look natural, like that's the size your body's meant to be. Congrats.

[chemgear]

By the numbers:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0409103247.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0403124252.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm/

For 2007-2008: Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9%. Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4%

Mathematically leaves 31.7% that are not overweight - this number is most likely shrinking in 2012.

Obesity adds more to health care costs than smoking does
Obesity now accounts for almost 21 percent of U.S. health care costs

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

??? DUDE he had every single transformer from the 80s. and he had the $300 masterpiece ones from Japan!

This is completely relevant to this thread.

BTW, I can't believe how much time people will waste trying to get a parking spot 10 feet closer to the store.

[flylock shox]

I'm not sure what to say other than this is wrong. Where did you read/hear this?

I suppose it depends which part you mean: the part about "overweight" people living longer with less morbidity; or the part about "obese" people not experiencing significantly increased health problems until they hit a BMI of 35.

The latter is pretty vague - I'm sure the stat is related to something narrower than "significantly increased health problems," I just can't recall offhand what it is.

Either way, I'll check with my resident expert on the subject.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by zamler

This is completely relevant to this thread.

BTW, I can't believe how much time people will waste trying to get a parking spot 10 feet closer to the store.

This drives me nuts! You've spent more time doing laps then you would parking at the back and be in the store already. I always park at the back, if I get lucky I'll park close but would never wait or search one out.

As for Devils'Advocate congrats on that, I almost don't want to believe that is you in the first picture.

Since this thread took that turn of 'hurting people's feelings' I wanna know why people give a #### about what others say about them? Honest question because as a kid I was always a bit chubby and kids would make fun of me and then I lost a bunch of weight and got really fit and people would just find something else to make fun of.

IMO it doesn't matter who you are there is something that someone could say about you trying to hurt your feelings but you just need to tell those people to #### off and move on. Back in high school I had kids at one point making fun of me and my best friends because we drove the nicest vehicles in the school...like wtf?!?! Still don't understand that one but it just went to show me it doesn't matter what others say because it's always easy to pick someone apart.

People who get hurt feelings over name calling need to see someone and get help.

[bcsoda]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

There are few disorders/diseases that make obesity inevitable, one of them being a leptin deficiency which affects very few people. This paragraph of yours makes it sound like everyone who is overweight is a helpless, peer pressure driven ignoramus. Certainly obesity is linked to genetics, as well as a multitude of other things, but at the end of the day 99% of people have control over their weight, and most do not choose to exert it - willingly.

I think that this piece of advice extends to a lot more than being ashamed of exercising, but at some point you just have to stop caring what people think. There are routes that exist to help people in this situation if they so desire.

Certainly skinny people can be very unhealthy, but the World Cancer Research Fund highest recommendation to preventing cancer is to be as lean as possible. I thought I'd provide an example rather than just claiming the opposite.

My intent definitely wasn't to make it sound like overweight people are all helpless and peer pressured, but like you "I was more speaking of a select portion of people to argue some points". As for the people who choose not to exert their control over their weight willingly, I have to ask, why should they? Fine, if you legitimately have health problems that are proven to be caused by your weight, then maybe someone might want to lose weight, but if they have no health problems then who is society to stigmatize them and demand that they be more aesthetically pleasing (which is constantly changing by the way. 100 years ago a woman who weighed over 200lbs was one of the most famous actresses and known for her beauty, and now today you're criticized if you weigh more than 100lbs)

For many people being able to ignore what someone has said is incredibly hard. I would love it if I could ignore every negative comment that anyone has ever said about me, but who is actually able to do that? And if you're part of a group that is constantly stigmatized by media and society you're having these comments thrown at you on a daily basis, whether it's directly or indirectly, and it's almost impossible to ignore.

And maybe the World Cancer Research Fund recommends being as lean as possible to reduce your risks for cancer (I've never personally researched this, so I couldn't say for sure myself), but there's also been some research done that in general people who are overweight live longer than those who are "normal" weight, underweight, or obese:

"Compared to people who fell into the normal-weight category:

Those classified as underweight were 73% more likely to die.
Those classified as extremely obese with BMI of 35 or greater were 36% more likely to die.
Those classified as obese with BMI 30-34.9 had about the same risk of death.
Those classified as overweight with BMI 25-29.9 were 17% less likely to die."

(http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090...le-live-longer)

So maybe as lean as possible isn't always the way to go?

Originally Posted by fotze

Clearly my sarcasm and posting history has been too subtle. This is clearly my fault, going to have to turn it up a notch.

Sometimes (actually a lot of times around here) some posts and threads are so monumentally stupid, that instead of arguing the other side you agree and take it up seven notches and see if anyone notices.

I can see where you're going with that, so I guess it's just that we have different ways of dealing with things. I'd prefer to call someone out about something that I think is apalling, rather than try to come at it with an over the top reply on their side, since that could potentially be very damaging to someone's self esteem. Could you imagine being someone reading this thread who is obese, handicapped, and doesn't know your sarcastic attitude, seeing that someone is referring to them as "handifatted" and that the idea of who they are makes that person wretch? They have no way of knowing if you're serious or not, and I don't know if saying that's just how you approach things makes it any better.

Originally Posted by HOOT

...
People who get hurt feelings over name calling need to see someone and get help.

What a great idea, you're right, it would be awesome if everyone who gets hurt feelings over name calling could get help to realize that these people are just being jerks. All they'll have to do is fork over $185 to $225 per hour (these are based on the going rates of therapists that I personally know). Or maybe, just maybe, the people who are doing the name calling are the ones who need to get help to figure out why they feel the need to do that and what they need to do to stop. Why should the people who are being bullied have to be the ones to change?

[bcsoda]

Oh, and just a note on BMI since it's been brought up in this thread: BMI was created by a mathematician who was using it solely to get statistics about communities in his quest to define the "normal man". He had no interest in health or fat, and the formula was never meant to be used on individuals as a way of assessing health. It is completely ineffective at actually determing the level of fat a person is carrying (" For example, Kline showed that in a sample of 1,000 people from Central Massachusetts, for a BMI of 35 the average percent body fat was around 32. However, individuals with a BMI of 35 had a range of body fat percentages from 18 to 47!") and whether or not that person is in good health. Dr's continue to use it because it is quick and cost effective. Diagnosing someone as obese (and thus "unhealthy") takes about 30 seconds by having them jump on the scale and then looking at their little chart to determine their BMI - why would anyone trust a medical diagnosis of "unhealthy" that took 30 seconds, a scale, a piece of paper, and no actual tests done to truly determine the person's health?

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by bcsoda

And maybe the World Cancer Research Fund recommends being as lean as possible to reduce your risks for cancer (I've never personally researched this, so I couldn't say for sure myself), but there's also been some research done that in general people who are overweight live longer than those who are "normal" weight, underweight, or obese:

"Compared to people who fell into the normal-weight category:

Those classified as underweight were 73% more likely to die.
Those classified as extremely obese with BMI of 35 or greater were 36% more likely to die.
Those classified as obese with BMI 30-34.9 had about the same risk of death.
Those classified as overweight with BMI 25-29.9 were 17% less likely to die."

(http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090...le-live-longer)

Well, that saved me some time. Thanks for that

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Before:

In Milwaukee, the day after being given my award for "Most Weight Lost in One Year", I ran my first half-marathon:

Honestly, you look healthier in the first photo... but that's just me.

[chemgear]

While I can understand that BMI isn't a perfect measurement, I am a little puzzled why it seems like the massive growth in overweight/obesity is often waved away in the name of making feel better about themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not interesting in bullying to get people to change. But it seems like people (in general) like to ignore the problem or blame it on genetics or how talking about how bad the issue is an assault on people's feelings.

Having just been in on a trip to Asia and back home, it is STAGGERING how large Canadians/North Americans are.

I'm a numbers guy so for the sake of comparison:

- more than 2/3 of all people are overweight or outright obese, nearly 70%
- roughly 1-2% of people suffered bulimia
- roughly 1-4% of people suffered anorexia

http://www.anad.org/get-information/...rs-statistics/
http://www.disordered-eating.co.uk/e...istics-us.html

Don't get me wrong, bulimia and anorexia are not good things (terrible actually) but they are not even in the same ballpark as a societal problem and cost.

[Aegypticus]

You know why I don't like BMI? Here's an example. I did five real life BMI calculations, all men. I got 33.4, 41.6, 43.9, 37.9, 40.6. These are all classified as obese, with some falling under morbidly obese. Who are these men?

Spoiler!

All winners of the Mr. Olympia Title at their non-competition weight. In order:

Arnold Schwarzenegger - 6'2" - 260 lbs
Jay Cutler - 5'10" - 290 lbs
Ronnie Coleman - 5'11" - 315 lbs
Dexter Jackson - 5'6" - 235 lbs
Phil Heath - 5'9" - 275 lbs

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by chemgear

While I can understand that BMI isn't a perfect measurement, I am a little puzzled why it seems like the massive growth in overweight/obesity is often waved away in the name of making feel better about themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not interesting in bullying to get people to change. But it seems like people (in general) like to ignore the problem or blame it on genetics or how talking about how bad the issue is an assault on people's feelings.

Having just been in on a trip to Asia and back home, it is STAGGERING how large Canadians/North Americans are.

I'm a numbers guy so for the sake of comparison:

- more than 2/3 of all people are overweight or outright obese, nearly 70%
- roughly 1-2% of people suffered bulimia
- roughly 1-4% of people suffered anorexia

http://www.anad.org/get-information/...rs-statistics/
http://www.disordered-eating.co.uk/e...istics-us.html

Don't get me wrong, bulimia and anorexia are not good things (terrible actually) but they are not even in the same ballpark as a societal problem and cost.

You've hit the nail though: the BMI is garbage as a health measure because it supposedly suggests that there is something wrong with being overweight (half that 2/3 are "overweight" - a demographic that lives longer and healthier than supposedly "normal" people), and a significant proportion of the less than 1/3 of the Canadian population that isn't "overweight" or lower on the BMI scale - i.e. the population that the BMI classifies as "obese" - aren't at greater risk of premature death than people the BMI classifies as "normal."

So, when you say 70% of the population is overweight or obese, it suggests that the vast majority of the Canadian population is unhealthy. In fact, only about 10% of the population (likely less) falls into a weight bracket with significantly increased likelihood of premature death - a figure far less significant than what is commonly promoted, i.e., 2/3 of the Canadian population.

And there's a huge industry out there pumping up the 2/3 figure for financial gain, and going out of their way to make people feel bad about not falling into a weight bracket that is, statistically, not the healthiest one to be in.

It's actually quite interesting when you get into this stuff, particularly the force of marketing and misinformation promoted in the supposed "health" industry.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

You know why I don't like BMI? Here's an example. I did five real life BMI calculations, all men. I got 33.4, 41.6, 43.9, 37.9, 40.6. These are all classified as obese, with some falling under morbidly obese. Who are these men?

Spoiler!

All winners of the Mr. Olympia Title at their non-competition weight. In order:

Arnold Schwarzenegger - 6'2" - 260 lbs
Jay Cutler - 5'10" - 290 lbs
Ronnie Coleman - 5'11" - 315 lbs
Dexter Jackson - 5'6" - 235 lbs
Phil Heath - 5'9" - 275 lbs

For added fun, the same principle applies in respect of many stars across many sports. BCSoda provided a good explanation above of the limitations of BMI - a statistic that's basically just being wantonly abused.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

You know why I don't like BMI? Here's an example. I did five real life BMI calculations, all men. I got 33.4, 41.6, 43.9, 37.9, 40.6. These are all classified as obese, with some falling under morbidly obese. Who are these men?

Again, I don't disagree that BMI in isolation can be a little wonky like any health metric. But why is that a reason to ignore the fact that it's showing the obesity is rising like crazy? It's like the whole household debt issue in Canada.

People point out investment instances where it totally makes sense. But the fact that is has grown substantially from a historical norm/trend should at least make it worthy to note, should it not?



BTW, I admit I thought of Jay Cutler the quarterback (if you can call in one) instead of the body builder, lol.

[bcsoda]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Well, that saved me some time. Thanks for that

No problem, sorry if I stole your reply! I had the info on hand from something else I was doing.

Originally Posted by chemgear

While I can understand that BMI isn't a perfect measurement, I am a little puzzled why it seems like the massive growth in overweight/obesity is often waved away in the name of making feel better about themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not interesting in bullying to get people to change. But it seems like people (in general) like to ignore the problem or blame it on genetics or how talking about how bad the issue is an assault on people's feelings.

Having just been in on a trip to Asia and back home, it is STAGGERING how large Canadians/North Americans are.

I'm a numbers guy so for the sake of comparison:

- more than 2/3 of all people are overweight or outright obese, nearly 70%
- roughly 1-2% of people suffered bulimia
- roughly 1-4% of people suffered anorexia

http://www.anad.org/get-information/...rs-statistics/
http://www.disordered-eating.co.uk/e...istics-us.html

Don't get me wrong, bulimia and anorexia are not good things (terrible actually) but they are not even in the same ballpark as a societal problem and cost.

From what I can find there is no "massive growth" in overweight/obesity. I haven't had the opportunity to research this myself in-depth, but the info I've heard recently is "The “epidemic” refers to a rise of 10-15 pounds in the average weight of US adults between 1980 and 1999. The rise was over before most of the “obesity epidemic” rhetoric began."
Not only that, but the rise in the number of overweight/obese individuals as classified by BMI may not actually be a rise in weight, but rather a change in what is defined as overweight. In 1998 the National Institute of Health changed the BMI number that determined people to be overweight from (if memory serves me correctly) 27 for women and 28 for men, down to 25 for both men and women. Overnight a massive number of people went from being "normal" to being overweight (and from being overweight to being obese). Nothing changed about their bodies or their lives, the only thing that changed was a label.
The reason that anorexia and bulimia are taken so much more seriously than people being overweight or obese is because being overweight or obese isn't a life threatening mental disorder, it's simply body composition. An anorexic or bulimic is going to be unhealthy (at the very least psychologically), someone who is overweight is quite possibly perfectly fine.