Paternity Leave Rant

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry guy, you can't opt out of this village. You're born into it. Entitled is shirking your responsibility to the next generation out of selfishness. Luckily for you, by not having children of your own, you only have to do 0.000001% of the work a parent has to do, but complaining about it is laughable if you know the time and effort that goes into raising a kid in our society.

Sure we have more work to do. But in no way to I expect my colleagues to pick up anything of mine. Its different maybe, being a contractor, I only charge by the hour. If I step out or arrive late, I'm the one who takes the hit. Still there are times when I really need to deliver and I do. I want my rate, my chance for more work, and more importantly, the respect of my peers to be based solely on my capability to do the job, nothing more, nothing less. I say this as a parent of three. Society and especially people I work with owe me nothing.

Anyway, if you were trolling, I give you troll of the year award, because you sure sucked me in to this one...

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry guy, you can't opt out of this village. You're born into it. Entitled is shirking your responsibility to the next generation out of selfishness. Luckily for you, by not having children of your own, you only have to do 0.000001% of the work a parent has to do, but complaining about it is laughable if you know the time and effort that goes into raising a kid in our society.

What an assinine comment.

And entitled is thinking that I should cover your ass at work because you have children. Sorry, but your child is not more important than me. Learned that the hard way after a failed marriage, physical exhaustion, and stress from an increased workload due to your little Johnny. But I guess that's just part of the sacrifice I'm supposed to give for raising a child in today's society.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry guy, you can't opt out of this village. You're born into it. Entitled is shirking your responsibility to the next generation out of selfishness. Luckily for you, by not having children of your own, you only have to do 0.000001% of the work a parent has to do, but complaining about it is laughable if you know the time and effort that goes into raising a kid in our society.

Raising kids is easy. You set a good example and spend time with them, the time you spend with them is enjoyable. If you find it to be the back breaking work you are describing you are doing it wrong.

Some accomadation is neccessary but others arent obligated to raise your child.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

What a load, I hate when people use their kids as excuse. Sure your job should let you leave to attend certain functions, but YOU should make up for it by working extra and putting in overtime, not counting on someone else to pick up for you, especially in a case like this; a parent counting on the non parents (time and time again by the sounds of it). Jealousy is something that a parent should've overcome before deciding they were matue enough to have kids. Just because my wife and I have chosen to not yet have kids, does not mean your life is more important then evryone elses.
All this is something resposible you really need to figure out before having children. It is your responsiblity to raise them. It only takes a village if you can't be bothered to do it yourself or if you wish to persue the over indulgent lifestyle most of us live. I'm not saying you don't need help, Aunts, Uncles whatever. But really to me leaving on time to get to my soft ball game is much more important then you having to leave early evrey Tuesday to get your kid to music lessons, especially when you can'tr come in early to make up for it because something about the school bus blah blah blah.

To use your example about the school bus: so if my five-year old's bus is late taking her to kindergarten so I can't get to work on time, what exactly do you propose I do? Are you aware that you can't leave a five-year old standing on a sidewalk by themselves? Coming in late is the only option in that case. Show some empathy FFS.

And make up the work at another time? This is what you don't seem to understand...there is no time. Anytime your coworker isn't at their job, they are working at home raising their kids. Looking after young kids is an all-day/all-night gig. There isn't time to make up day-job work.

I've been in your shoes and I've been a parent for six years now too. You have no clue what you're talking about.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Raising kids is easy. You set a good example and spend time with them, the time you spend with them is enjoyable. If you find it to be the back breaking work you are describing you are doing it wrong.

Some accomadation is neccessary but others arent obligated to raise your child.

I've never heard a parent describe raising kids as being easy. If you think it's easy then it's you who is doing it wrong.

And you are echoing my point exactly with your last sentence. Some accommodation by others is required so you can raise your kids.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Sliver

To use your example about the school bus: so if my five-year old's bus is late taking her to kindergarten so I can't get to work on time, what exactly do you propose I do? Are you aware that you can't leave a five-year old standing on a sidewalk by themselves? Coming in late is the only option in that case. Show some empathy FFS.

And make up the work at another time? This is what you don't seem to understand...there is no time. Anytime your coworker isn't at their job, they are working at home raising their kids. Looking after young kids is an all-day/all-night gig. There isn't time to make up day-job work.

I've been in your shoes and I've been a parent for six years now too. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Wow, what a pathetic life you lead, slaved to a 5 and a 6 year old, wait till they get older and smarter....wait a minute where are you getting time to post on here? Shouldn't you be parenting and living this hell of raising kids you have pictured for us.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Both parents working is an excuse for misbehaved, rude, kids who don't listen.

What is this BS?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Wow, what a pathetic life you lead, slaved to a 5 and a 6 year old, wait till they get older and smarter....wait a minute where are you getting time to post on here? Shouldn't you be parenting and living this hell of raising kids you have pictured for us.

I said the real crunch time is 0-2.5 in an earlier post. They are much easier and much more fun now (and way less work). There are still times, however, when they need me and they come before work (as they should). When my coworkers need to deal with their family issues I always encourage them to take care of those as our families are more important than our jobs.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry guy, you can't opt out of this village. You're born into it. Entitled is shirking your responsibility to the next generation out of selfishness. Luckily for you, by not having children of your own, you only have to do 0.000001% of the work a parent has to do, but complaining about it is laughable if you know the time and effort that goes into raising a kid in our society.

You decided just have stupid kids, not me.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I've never heard a parent describe raising kids as being easy. If you think it's easy then it's you who is doing it wrong.

And you are echoing my point exactly with your last sentence. Some accommodation by others is required so you can raise your kids.

No you are coming across as being entitled. Demanding accomadation from others because you believe yourc hoices are more noble.

I am saying some accomodation is neccessary but that should be done in a way that minimzes impact to others. Ie flexible work hours not other people covering for you.

And yes parenting is easy. It can be stressful but it is most definately easy. What is difficult about it? Cooking for kids is no more work than cooking for yourself, cleaning is more work but is manageable, and spending time with your kids is more rewarding than watching tv. For reference, I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by moon

What is this BS?

Well the bigger picture is this. You can only spend speial time with your kids, between whe you get home, say 6:00 and when they got to bed, say 8:00 that is really two hours a day with both parents, forget the mornings because once they've left for school that 45min during breakfast has long left their little child minds, so back to the 2+/- hours you spend with them at night. If that is the only time the parents are around, the kids bo nuts and the parents let them because they don't want to spend this time yelling, disciplining, giving them time out. They want to enjoy the time with their kids so the kids do whatever they want.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I've never heard a parent describe raising kids as being easy. If you think it's easy then it's you who is doing it wrong.

And you are echoing my point exactly with your last sentence. Some accommodation by others is required so you can raise your kids.

Most of us don't think that raising a kid is easy. I am pretty sure that it's not. However, it is an added responsibility, not a substituted one. You want kids? Fine, great, awesome. However, that means you are going to have to do more then someone who doesn't have kids, and it's not the 'job' of someone who doesn't have kids (or is managing them better/different) to make up your lack.

Yes, we all have to be understanding of our co-workers, that's how work works better. But if I cover for you so that every Tuesday you can go and get little Johnny off to hockey practice, you better remember that every other Thursday is 'Date Night', and you get to return the favor.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

No you are coming across as being entitled. Demanding accomadation from others because you believe yourc hoices are more noble.

I am saying some accomodation is neccessary but that should be done in a way that minimzes impact to others. Ie flexible work hours not other people covering for you.

And yes parenting is easy. It can be stressful but it is most definately easy. What is difficult about it? Cooking for kids is no more work than cooking for yourself, cleaning is more work but is manageable, and spending time with your kids is more rewarding than watching tv. For reference, I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old

Well every situation is different and I don't know your circumstances, but you are an anomaly among parents to think it is an easy job. It seems almost unbelievable. What's difficult about it? I guess less sleep, less money, less relaxation time, less freedom and flexibility to enjoy hobbies and friends, more demands on your time, frustrations (tantrums, feedings, potty training, etc.), more responsibility, more illness, diapers, laundry, more cleaning, baths, etc. not to mention the endurance just to keep that up year after year. Throw in any life curve ball such as the death of a loved one, car accident, etc. and it becomes even harder. Parenting is easy, is it? No, objectively it is not. I can't believe we are even having this conversation.

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Sliver

And you are echoing my point exactly with your last sentence. Some accommodation by others is required so you can raise your kids.

I have no problem with some accommodation such as being late because your child's bus is late, music lessons, etc. The problem is that a lot of parents are starting to abuse this.

Weather is crappy outside, sorry can't come in to work as child is sick.

No school on Friday, have to stay home and watch kids. And if I have to watch them, it may as well be at the lake for a long weekend.

And it's not just at my work. More and more of my friends are doing this and think that it's fine. Which is why I'm starting to lose a lot of sympathy for the parents.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Most of us don't think that raising a kid is easy. I am pretty sure that it's not. However, it is an added responsibility, not a substituted one. You want kids? Fine, great, awesome. However, that means you are going to have to do more then someone who doesn't have kids, and it's not the 'job' of someone who doesn't have kids (or is managing them better/different) to make up your lack.

Yes, we all have to be understanding of our co-workers, that's how work works better. But if I cover for you so that every Tuesday you can go and get little Johnny off to hockey practice, you better remember that every other Thursday is 'Date Night', and you get to return the favor.

I completely agree with you.

[Sylvanfan]

I would agree that the issue here is more with the supervisor. I can appreciate the frustration, and no doubt you need to make sure there is something in it for your efforts. When you offer to bend over backwards for your company, often they bend you over and instead of appreciating your efforts, it becomes the expectation.

Also with the mail it in factor, that's BS. In certain jobs with certain levels of responsibility, your obligation is to complete your tasks. When you know you'll be away for any period of time, you complete your work, and don't sluff things off on others. To me that's a character issue and not a paternity issue. Your children will become a responsibility that far out weighs what work throws your way.

I do think employers do have to make an effort to help employees who do have children. But the employees themselves have to be worthy of being afforded the extra gratitude.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well the bigger picture is this. You can only spend speial time with your kids, between whe you get home, say 6:00 and when they got to bed, say 8:00 that is really two hours a day with both parents, forget the mornings because once they've left for school that 45min during breakfast has long left their little child minds, so back to the 2+/- hours you spend with them at night. If that is the only time the parents are around, the kids bo nuts and the parents let them because they don't want to spend this time yelling, disciplining, giving them time out. They want to enjoy the time with their kids so the kids do whatever they want.

I am very familiar with how much time you can or can't spend with your kids due to work or school, just thought it was amazing that you would then equate that to obviously leading to misbehaved rude kids.

Also if you are talking about school then what does it matter if there are two working parents or zero as the same amount of time is going to be spent with the kid whether working out not.

There are plenty of rude kids from homes with one parent home all the time and plenty of nice, well behaved kids from homes with two parents working.

For you to break it down as "Both parents working is an excuse for misbehaved, rude, kids who don't listen" is laughable.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

And make up the work at another time? This is what you don't seem to understand...there is no time.

What are you talking about there is no other time?

I have taken time to do something for/with/because of my kids but I either a. make up the work later or b. don't expect to be paid for the work (depending on what type of job I am doing.)

Sure parents should get some leeway to take care of things that need taking care of but that doesn't mean carte blanche to shirk work and do less than others. It is very easy to fit time in to make up the work or get jobs done kids or not.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry guy, you can't opt out of this village. You're born into it.

Want to bet? You raise your kids. Good on you. I realize its a tough job and I'm glad I don't have to do it. You chose to have kids and if you didn't then your mistake was not being prepared enough to avoid it.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Entitled is shirking your responsibility to the next generation out of selfishness.

What would you rather have: Someone who is child-free by choice or a parent who resents their children because they felt obligated to have them?

Originally Posted by Sliver

Luckily for you, by not having children of your own, you only have to do 0.000001% of the work a parent has to do, but complaining about it is laughable if you know the time and effort that goes into raising a kid in our society.

What do you want? A gold star? A "World's Greatest Dad" t-shirt with the world's hand prints on it? You chose to be a parent so it's your responsibility. Pretending to be a martyr because you have kids is like choosing to crawl naked across crushed glass for a drink of water and then complaining that no one else is enjoying you drinking the water.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well every situation is different and I don't know your circumstances, but you are an anomaly among parents to think it is an easy job. It seems almost unbelievable. What's difficult about it? I guess less sleep, less money, less relaxation time, less freedom and flexibility to enjoy hobbies and friends, more demands on your time, frustrations (tantrums, feedings, potty training, etc.), more responsibility, more illness, diapers, laundry, more cleaning, baths, etc. not to mention the endurance just to keep that up year after year. Throw in any life curve ball such as the death of a loved one, car accident, etc. and it becomes even harder. Parenting is easy, is it? No, objectively it is not. I can't believe we are even having this conversation.

What you are describing is that it is more time consuming to be a parent. I dont equate spending time to hard. I believe many parents hold themselves to a unattainable standard of societies definition of an ideal parent and then burn themselves out trying to achieve it and feel bad about themselves when they arent perfect. This would be hard work. Then on the other hand there are people who i think regret being parents and just view their kids as work.

So i think many people make parenting out to be harder than it is. It happens to be one of my pet peaves. I am not saying you fall into one of the above catagories.