Best GM dealer in Cowtown?

[Incinerator]

More updates from yesterday:

First thing to do: Off to Stampede Pontiac, great people to talk to (Thanks Bourgeois!) Did not even ask to see my licence. The guy got the keys and showed me around the lot on the G6 base and the GT. Interior not very impressive, still got that GM rental fleet feel to it (They didn't have any leather in stock so didn't get to see that) Knobs and centre stack's controls felt cheap. But I can live with that since the price is right (with all the GM factory incentives and rebates going on right now). Styling is pretty cool, not as loud as the Mazda but not too conservative either. Trunk is freakishly small, not good.

Drove a GT without leather off the lot for a spin around downtown and Bow trail. Electric steering instead of the conventional hydralic pump. Definitely not my kind of thing. I felt completely disconnected to the road. Sort of like the Camry but the steering is more variable in this car at different speeds. Very hard to park and to get out, side mirrors are too small. Ride is very...sporty, you can feel every bump on the road. Engine super quiet, even with the 4 speed autostick, it's hard to rev it, engine takes forever to rev above 3500rpm. In 4th gear at 80km/h it revs at 1500! Totally doesn't fit the character of the car. Overall, dealership gets a 9/10 from me. The car? 5/10. Saw an Envoy in the showroom that advertises for $33Gs, 10 grand off the original sticker. But that thing is a beast, I don't think I'm ready for a big SUV at all...

Then...

Finally got to drive the Sonata...WOW, I think I'm in love, anybody out there who's looking at the midsizes MUST give the V6 a drive, I would even go so far as to say that it felt sportier than the Mazda6, without all the boy racer styling...IT GOES! The autostick sportshift is the best I've experienced in this segment. Barely noticed any lag between moving the shifter and the actual up/down shift. The Mazda did have a half-second lag. Brakes are on par with Mazda and much better pedal feel than Honda Seats are decent, not as comfy as the Accord though. Interior feels okay, lots of hard plastics, nowhere near Accord's quality and Mazda6's ambience, but comfortable and functional, sort of like a 1990s Honda, which I'm very used to. Hyundai must've hired ex-Honda designers and engineers.

The trunk is HUGE! Big plus for grocery hauling haha...The 17in Michelins handles great in the pouring rain, corners very well. Ripped through the Railway tracks at Blackfoot and the thing kept its composure very well. Overall great fun car to toss around, sleeper looks. It's tame when I want it to be too, slap it back to full auto and the ride is very soothing.

All this was at the Macleod Tr. dealer and they only had 1 in stock so far, which I drove and it's not even a demo covered in white plastic & all haha... it did not have leather so I didn't get to feel the quality of that. Will have to do that another day. The South dealer is ok, the place looks very ghetto, like 1980s ghetto...and they don't seem like they're in a hurry to sell cars, 5 guys sitting in their offices and only one younger guy greeted us, nice guy. But I started imagining how all my scheduled maintenance experiences at this dealership is gonna go and let's just say I'm leaning back to the Honda/Mazda again...I know I know, you guys are gonna say if I love the car I should just get it. But I don't want to deal with a headache in the unlikely event that I bought a lemon, given no prior history to this new Sonata.

Went to the NE Hyundai/Suzuki hybrid dealer afterwards and they are still as snobby as 3 years ago when I helped my dad leased a car, we ended up with a Saturn right next door. First thing the salesperson asked when we go in "Can I help you?" "Oh we wanted to look at the Sonata, we're shopping around the midsize class right now" (This is what we basically say to every dealer we walked in) "Oh ok, better shop fast, we're closing soon...what kind of payments are you looking for?" (5:45PM on Friday)

UM, HELLO, What if I decided to buy that day, with money order in hand. Do you kick me out at 6pm sharp? And how would you know I'm going to finance or lease? Asking me what kind of payments I'm looking for before I even step foot into the showroom to me just sounds like you don't think I can afford the car. All the other dealers I have been to asked nicely if I wanted to look at the finance/lease rates or if I'm paying cash. Condesending know-it-all salespeople is my top pet peeve when shopping. I love the car but I will definitely not buy from this dealer for sure even if I do decide to buy it.

So there you have it, another day in the trenches. Now we're off to the Honda dealer to give the 4-cyl Accord a spin, see if we can live without the V6 since the seats are so comfy but the price was not Also going to give the 6 Wagon a try and maybe the G35 for kicks but I doubt it haha.

New short list:
1. Sonata
2. Accord 4-cyl
3. Mazda6 Hatch
4. The Used '02 Acura TL

If any of you drives one of the above advice is always welcome B-)

[Flame Of Liberty]

I gotta agree with Claeren – Honda all the way. I have the new Accord 2.4 as well, and love it (how on earth can you say its fugly? :angry: ). Previously I had a Civic (again not sure why north americans are against this car...or its image :unsure: ) with over 200 thousands km on it. No problems whatsoever, the car was like new. IMO Honda with manual gear offers the best driving experience out of all "normal" cars (ie. if you omit uber cars like Ferrari of course) I have driven. Add great reliabilty and its a no brainer really.

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Flame Of Liberty@Jun 18 2005, 06:35 PM
I gotta agree with Claeren – Honda all the way. I have the new Accord 2.4 as well, and love it (how on earth can you say its fugly? :angry: ). Previously I had a Civic (again not sure why north americans are against this car...or its image :unsure: ) with over 200 thousands km on it. No problems whatsoever, the car was like new. IMO Honda with manual gear offers the best driving experience out of all "normal" cars (ie. if you omit uber cars like Ferrari of course) I have driven. Add great reliabilty and its a no brainer really.

FOL, Are we brothers in a previous life? (read on)

Well Mango, you're gonna be disappointed haha...and thanks to everyone for all the helpful advice and comments these past few days. Here's our adventure today:

Wanted to drive the 6 Wagon, so went to Kramer Mazda because I don't want to do the test drive twice at North Hill when we don't know for sure if we're gonna get it. Kramer was sort of busy for a Saturday. Nobody paid any attention to us in 5 minutes after we walked in, the receptionist didn't even greet us. Took a look at the wagon, one guy came to talk to us, sat us down in the office and gave us some BS sticker price quotes. We asked if they have a demo for test drive, the guy goes away for 5 minutes and come back saying they won't have it for another 40 minutes and asked if we'd like to wait. Complete Bull, this is a million dollar brand new facility and they don't have more than 1 freakin' demo!? Screw that, took his card, gave him some BS chit-chat and walked out.


Sat down at lunch and thought about the Sonata again, but decided that the trade-in value just isn't gonna make it in the future and still a little iffy at the ghetto Precision Hyundai dealership and not to mention completely baffled by Calgary Hyundai Suzuki's attitude. So in the end, unless a new Hyundai dealer magically appears in Calgary, the crush I've developed for the Sonata just isn't gonna convince me to drop the ~$30Gs on it right now. Maybe in 10 years when they get better dealers in town and a proven track record with the car has been developed. As for the Mazda, decided that with that flooding rain we're not gonna bother going to North Hill with the tight next to no parking lot and all...As well as figuring that the Sportshift tranny will probably have some problems in the future since it's a new 6-spd this model year...Manual is not an option for us, unfortunately, I also hate city driving with a clutch, combined with the looks not really fitting me right now, so no dice on the Mazda6.

Mulled over the '02 TL but decided that for the price range we are shopping in, we better not take any chances with a used car, even if it's a Honda product. (Flame of Liberty, I just sold my '97 Civic with 222,000km on it a few days ago )

Gave Crowfoot Honda a call and said we'll be dropping by again. The guy was waiting at the door when we pulled up and had the keys ready to go, very impressed. Drove the 4-cyl base model demo. (did the V6 EX couple days ago) Very good pickup, totally adequate power, brakes are still very touchy though. Sat in the showroom car's leather again and it's still the most comfy out of all the seats I've been in leather OR cloth. The Mazda6, Acura EL and TSX's got nothing on the Accord's leather. I hate those so called "sporty" perforated leather crap. Actually I wasn't a big fan of leather period due to the heat in the summer but the Accord doesn't come with the moonroof alone without it. And I'm a big fan of the roof, and she likes the leather. So it was decided that V6 power is a totally non-essential option and we closed the deal on the EX-L 4-banger right there. Got a great deal thanks to CCC, if anyone is looking for a midsize car PM me I got all the dealer invoices for almost every car in this segment except Nissan.

So there you have it, I am now the soon to be proud owner of yet another Honda, still don't like the rear end (FOL, yes it's fugly ) and the brakes takes a lot of getting used to...But for the deal that we got I can live with these minor things ) So Claeren and FOL, I'm back in the Honda club after being so determined to leave once and for all...oh hypocrite me :P

[Mango]

I'm glad that you found something that suited your needs! Enjoy your new car!

[Table 5]

Originally posted by Flame Of Liberty@Jun 18 2005, 01:35 PM
IMO Honda with manual gear offers the best driving experience out of all "normal" cars (ie. if you omit uber cars like Ferrari of course) I have driven.

bah, a VW trumps Honda any day when it comes to driving experience. Sure you might be cursing a few months down the road about reliability, but these cars are amazingly fun to drive. They are gutsy, quick to respond, and just plain fun. The best part of those cars are the transmissions, which are short, hard, and smooth....easily outperforms the stick in butter Civic I tried a few months back.

Overall, Honda's are much better built cars, but when it comes to sheer fun and drivability, VW is still tops in a lot of ways for me.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally posted by Table 5+Jun 19 2005, 04:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Table 5 @ Jun 19 2005, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame Of Liberty@Jun 18 2005, 01:35 PM
IMO Honda with manual gear offers the best driving experience out of all "normal" cars (ie. if you omit uber cars like Ferrari of course) I have driven.

bah, a VW trumps Honda any day when it comes to driving experience. Sure you might be cursing a few months down the road about reliability, but these cars are amazingly fun to drive. They are gutsy, quick to respond, and just plain fun. The best part of those cars are the transmissions, which are short, hard, and smooth....easily outperforms the stick in butter Civic I tried a few months back.

Overall, Honda's are much better built cars, but when it comes to sheer fun and drivability, VW is still tops in a lot of ways for me. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you 100% there. I used to have a VW GTI, with a 5 speed, and my room mate had a Civic SI with the same thing. I drove his car to Kamloops once and I thought my VW was a lot more responsive and fun to drive. Still the Honda probably is the better car to own based on resale, reliability and the like.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally posted by Table 5+Jun 19 2005, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Table 5 @ Jun 19 2005, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame Of Liberty@Jun 18 2005, 01:35 PM
IMO Honda with manual gear offers the best driving experience out of all "normal" cars (ie. if you omit uber cars like Ferrari of course) I have driven.

bah, a VW trumps Honda any day when it comes to driving experience. Sure you might be cursing a few months down the road about reliability, but these cars are amazingly fun to drive. They are gutsy, quick to respond, and just plain fun. The best part of those cars are the transmissions, which are short, hard, and smooth....easily outperforms the stick in butter Civic I tried a few months back.

Overall, Honda's are much better built cars, but when it comes to sheer fun and drivability, VW is still tops in a lot of ways for me. [/b][/quote]
I dont know which VW you compared to Civic. Golf? I cant say, because I have never driven a Golf. If you compare old Passat to old Accord, I would agree with you and I would give an edge to VW. However, I think there is no way new Passat outperforms new Accord when it comes to driving experience. Accord has gotten much better IMO. I have nothing against Passat, its a great car, but its more expensive than Accord, no?

To Incinerator: welcome back to the bright side

[Table 5]

Originally posted by Flame Of Liberty+Jun 19 2005, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame Of Liberty @ Jun 19 2005, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

bah, a VW trumps Honda any day when it comes to driving experience. Sure you might be cursing a few months down the road about reliability, but these cars are amazingly fun to drive. They are gutsy, quick to respond, and just plain fun. The best part of those cars are the transmissions, which are short, hard, and smooth....easily outperforms the stick in butter Civic I tried a few months back.

Overall, Honda's are much better built cars, but when it comes to sheer fun and drivability, VW is still tops in a lot of ways for me.

I dont know which VW you compared to Civic. Golf? I cant say, because I have never driven a Golf. If you compare old Passat to old Accord, I would agree with you and I would give an edge to VW. However, I think there is no way new Passat outperforms new Accord when it comes to driving experience. Accord has gotten much better IMO. I have nothing against Passat, its a great car, but its more expensive than Accord, no?

To Incinerator: welcome back to the bright side [/b][/quote]
I test-drove a Passat a year ago when my family was in the market for a car, and it performs just as well as the other VW's. I would have no hesitiation in saying it probably does the same to the Accord what a Golf would to a Civic. VW's are great when it comes to performance and fun-factor.

I urge you to try them. v-dubs are definitely drivers cars....although you will be driving them to your dealer more than you wish!

[BigOilFan]

V dubs are som ethe best driveing cars on the road. No Jap car can come close in the way it drives.

Reliability has been a concern for VW in the last body style but its mostly in the TDI models. People don't know how to take care of them. That being said nothing beats the resale of a TDI VW. NOTHING!

The new Jetta thats out is awesome to drive. Its looks took a little to get used to for us hard core VW guys but I really like it now. The build quality is unreal. With the new Golf, GTI, and Passat all due out in the near future VW is going to have some big years ahead.

Its hard to knock Honda or Toyota as far as reliability of the engine is concerned but you couldn't find a more boring car to drive.

[Table 5]

Personally, I can't stand the new Jetta's looks. Its so cookie-cutter bland it makes me wretch. I dont think the new Golf GTI is that bad, but I'm almost as disappointed in the new VW lineup as I am with BMW and Porsche these days.

As far as problems go, we had a 01 Golf which was full of problems from the first day. I think we replaced the airbags atleat 4-5 times in that thing, the engine light kept going on consitently, the glove compartment and cup holders kept braking over and over.....that was one problem car!

But I still loved it....it was sooo fun to drive, and that blue lighting is simply beautiful at night.

[BigOilFan]

I think you need to really drive the new Jetta and you might like it a little more. The new Golf and Passat that are on the way are sick nice. You can check them out at www.vwvortex.com.

As far as the problems you had with your '01 Golf thats brutal. Since VW introduced the A4 platform in 1999.5 its had a few problems. Something about that platform caused problems and really hurt VW's reputation as a reliable car. That stupid engine light is stupid...it rarely means anything. VW has taken ownership if its problems and has hopefully addressed the problems in the new cars.

I work for a VW dealer, if you haven't noticed, and although I do have some 'repeat service' customers, 99% of them love their car.

And we still have the blue lights!!

[Table 5]

Im sure the new Jetta drives great, thats expected. I just wish VW had take a bolder step in its design....its known for being a designers car, and I think they simply wussed out this time. I wish they would have gone with a more angular approach as opposed to the bubble route.

As part as the problems, I think the car itself was a problem, but the rude service and customer care at the dealership was awful. They promised one thing, and then simply didnt fix things or fixed the wrong things (like replacing the WRONG airbag).
The customer service with VW's I've found to be extremly poor, especially when you compare it to most Toyota dealerships. If it wasn't for the great driving ability of that car, I dont think we would have kept it very long simply for having to associate with the horrible staff at that place.

[Claeren]

Did you get a 5-speed stick or auto Accord?

I have the 5-speed auto and that extra gear makes a big difference in both performance and fuel economy. And, as you say, the leather is great... people always marvel over that and the duel climate control system. They are like, 'THIS is a 4-banger Accord?'. The only difference really is the power (which makes no difference to me, seems really powerful to me already, who needs 240hp?) and the fuel economy (which DOES make a difference to me!).

Also, it uses regular gas which is nice.



Regardless, ENJOY!

I have gone 80,000kms and am going strong still...


Claeren.

PS - Roughly what did you pay? What colour?

[Bill Bumface]

First off, the lights in VW's are PURPLE! All VW owners deny this, but everyone else knows its true.

The new Jetta looks way too much like a Corolla. Incredibly bland/boring.

[Regulator75]

I totally agree, the new Jetta looks like a Corolla on crack. I liked the previous models much more. I think VW just tried too hard on this one.

[BigOilFan]

Originally posted by hulkrogan@Jun 19 2005, 09:33 PM
First off, the lights in VW's are PURPLE! All VW owners deny this, but everyone else knows its true.

The new Jetta looks way too much like a Corolla. Incredibly bland/boring.

Blueish purple...big deal.

If you don't like the new Jetta whos car do you like?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally posted by BigOilFan+Jun 19 2005, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigOilFan @ Jun 19 2005, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hulkrogan@Jun 19 2005, 09:33 PM
First off, the lights in VW's are PURPLE! All VW owners deny this, but everyone else knows its true.

The new Jetta looks way too much like a Corolla. Incredibly bland/boring.

Blueish purple...big deal.

If you don't like the new Jetta whos car do you like? [/b][/quote]
As in 4 door, yet slightly sporty?

-WRX
-Mazda 6
-Altima SE-R
-TSX
-Accord


All of those are cars I prefer. I thought the last generation of Jetta's were nice looking cars, and I was sad to see the styling go down the shinguardter.

[Table 5]

Originally posted by hulkrogan@Jun 19 2005, 04:33 PM
First off, the lights in VW's are PURPLE! All VW owners deny this, but everyone else knows its true.

yeah, let's see who to believe....drivers who see the lights day in and out for years, or a guy like yourself who has probably seen it once or twice. and who cares anyway? would purple mean vw drivers are homos or something?

[BigOilFan]

The Altima is a log of shinguard. Drives like a freaking tank.

The Accord is a good car, but doesn't drive like a VW.

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Claeren@Jun 19 2005, 07:18 PM
Did you get a 5-speed stick or auto Accord?

I have the 5-speed auto and that extra gear makes a big difference in both performance and fuel economy. And, as you say, the leather is great... people always marvel over that and the duel climate control system. They are like, 'THIS is a 4-banger Accord?'. The only difference really is the power (which makes no difference to me, seems really powerful to me already, who needs 240hp?) and the fuel economy (which DOES make a difference to me!).

Also, it uses regular gas which is nice.



Regardless, ENJOY!

I have gone 80,000kms and am going strong still...


Claeren.

PS - Roughly what did you pay? What colour?

Auto as mentioned earlier, being lazy city dwellers who rarely drives on the highway save for the occational Deerfoot crosstown trip, which is also a big reason we've decided not to go for the V6. We closed the deal at the low end of mid-30s out the door, but that included every single accessory we could think of, the extended warranty, the paint/rust/leather protection, oil changes during the extended warranty etc etc. Basically we just paid sticker and got all the extra bells & whistles for free, a saving of about $3Gs, the price I got for the Civic. It's Satin Silver Metallic, the most "boring" of all car colours, just the way I like it. Graphite was the first choice but they didn't have one in stock, and Silver will probably age better, so Silver it was.


As for all teh VeeDub talk, it wasn't on our shopping list because of the reliability issues as mentioned. And they're build in Mexico aren't they?