Fetish Fests

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher+Jun 14 2005, 09:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flames Draft Watcher @ Jun 14 2005, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakeeye@Jun 14 2005, 04:27 PM
I'm not certian if you worded it the way you meant to, but you almost seem to be arguing that suggesting the gay community consists of otherwise normal people is a faulty and damaging assumption.

What the hell is a "normal" person? A clone of you? [/b][/quote]
Why bother considering the argument when an ad hominem attack will do, eh?

Normal: A person who gets up like everyone else, goes to work/school like everyone else, has family, friends, loved ones like everyone else. Goes to the park, ballgames, museums like everyone else, etc. Doesnt act like a freak in public.

I was questioning Hakan's wording, where it seemed like he was arguing that the freakshow that these parades become is the norm. That didnt seem right, so I asked for a clarification, explaining what I was taking from those comments.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Hakan@Jun 14 2005, 09:35 AM
Didn't say that at all. I said sexuality is one of the biggest identifiers of their community because by entry to the queer community is ultimately through sexual preference.

I then said that I'm interested in what kinks and fetishes they were into. Did I say that every gay person is into those? No.

You're contentions with my posts stretch a good amount of logic. Where at all did you get that I thought that the queer community was not full of normal people? I never said anything that if you were into fetishes or kinks you weren't normal nor did I say that if you were a member of the queer community you are by definition into fetish stuff.

As I just told FDW, I wasnt sure what you were stating. It seemed to me that your comment about wanting to know what kinks and fetishes the gay community was what was forming your impression. Since it seems to me that such kinks and fetishes are no more representative of the homosexual community at large than similar behavours in straight people is representative of the heterosexual community, your statement didnt quite mesh right for me. As I said, that didnt quite seem like what you were actually trying to say, so I asked what it was exactly that you meant.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Jun 14 2005, 06:01 PM
Normal: A person who gets up like everyone else, goes to work/school like everyone else, has family, friends, loved ones like everyone else. Goes to the park, ballgames, museums like everyone else, etc. Doesnt act like a freak in public.

Everybody who doesn't go to the park, ballgames or the museum is abnormal according to you? Everybody who acts "freaky" isn't normal?

That's completely subjective. What you consider freaky won't be the same as what other people consider freaky. What you consider normal activities won't be the same as what other people consider normal activities. And that's just in our country. Go travel the world and you'll find there is no "normal".

Normal? Give me a break. You obviously hasn't had many interactions with a wide variety of the population, if you had you'd realize there is no normal. Everybody's different. There's a group of society that tries harder to clone each other and be like each other but those people aren't the "norm", they are just scared to be unique individuals if you ask me. People who want to conform to what they imagine is the "norm", when really there is no "norm".

[Resolute 14]

Does being obtuse come natrually for you FDW, or did you spend years perfecting your craft?

Or are you unable to argue the original point so you are trying to divert the issue into an arena that you can fight?

More to the point, I question whether you even understand what it is you are arguing, and what it is you think I am saying.

The activities I mentioned were just examples, and not a literal definition of what "normal" is. I would have figured you were intelligent enough to figure that out. Not so sure anymore.

How about "societal norms"? What I meant by "otherwise normal" was a person who doesnt immediately leap out at you as being different - and before you say it "different" can mean anything, not just hetero/homosexuality. As I have stated twice now, in the context of Hakan's post, I was questioning whether he thought that the gay pride parade represented the norm for the gay community as that is the way I read his statements. As I have stated twice now, I didnt believe that he truely meant what I was reading into his statement. And, as I have stated twice now, I was looking for a clarification on that point.

So, feel free to step down off your high horse and shove it where the sun dont shine - assuming you can fit it with whatever else you already have stuck up there.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I don't understand why you'd use the term "normal" to describe any person. It smacks of ignorance about how different people truly are.

In your latest reply it seems like you are saying you judge people based on their first appearance and then shove them into the "normal" box or the abnormal box.

I'm just going on what you're saying man. I'm not arguing the original point, I thought that would be obvious to you. I'm taking exception to you propagating the concept that there are normal people and then abnormal people. That's just far too simplistic and not representative of reality at all.

People might be convinced there are "societal norms" because they associate with a similar demographic to themselves and mistakenly believe that "most" people are also like that. If all you deal with (for example) is white collar, conservative church goers (again, just an example) then you might get confused into thinking that's "normal". When in reality everything that is legal to be done is done by somebody, somewhere and even a lot of the illegal things are done. Everybody has different standards, everybody does different things with their life. There are a large amount of subcultures. I'm guessing you don't deal with many of them.

[Natt]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Jun 14 2005, 04:38 AM
Heterosexuals display lewd sexuality all the time. On television, in movies, music videos, at the bar, in my bedroom (j/k)...

Seriously though, heterosexuals are free to act overtly sexual practically any time they want too. That is probably why something like a hetero version of the Gay Pride Parade would be silly. Homosexuals often have to hide their sexual expression, or tone it down because of the negative views towards it, and the real possibility of physical harm from haters.

The Gay Pride Parade is an expression of pent up sexuality and a way for them to try and desensitize the public to their sexuality. Maybe one day, if the desensitizing works, we will see "Chistina Aquilera-esque" videos on prime time televsion, but with gay performers. At that time, "Gay Pride" will likely become unnecessary.

If you don't like, don't watch. That's what I've always done when I see something offensive or insulting.

I agree. While some may not like the in-your-face approach of the gay parade, does anyone feel there is some sort of double standard? It seems we can celebrate heterosexuality (as it is accepted on television, and other forms of media) but not homosexuality. I dunno, just wondering.

[Resolute 14]

Fine, how about behaviors that society finds acceptable if "normal" isnt good enough for you?

Walking around in everyday life wearing "assless chaps" is not normal or acceptable behavior by any reasonable definition society currently accepts. Most fetishes are also not considered normal or acceptable behaviour in the context of everyday public life. These are things that are normally conducted in private.

The point, which I apparently failed to properly convey, is that I was questioning a statement that made it appear - to me at least - that such kinks and fetishes are normal in the everyday lives of the gay community. Obviously this is false, and I was trying to convey that aside from sexual preference, the average gay person would act like the average straight person. Or, "otherwise normal." I thought Hakan was trying to make that very statement, but the wording came off strange to me.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Jun 14 2005, 09:08 PM
Fine, how about behaviors that society finds acceptable if "normal" isnt good enough for you?

Walking around in everyday life wearing "assless chaps" is not normal or acceptable behavior by any reasonable definition society currently accepts. Most fetishes are also not considered normal or acceptable behaviour in the context of everyday public life. These are things that are normally conducted in private.

The point, which I apparently failed to properly convey, is that I was questioning a statement that made it appear - to me at least - that such kinks and fetishes are normal in the everyday lives of the gay community. Obviously this is false, and I was trying to convey that aside from sexual preference, the average gay person would act like the average straight person. Or, "otherwise normal." I thought Hakan was trying to make that very statement, but the wording came off strange to me.

Walking around in chaps is acceptable to me and a lot of other people. Probably wouldn't be acceptable in a business setting but it's not like you get arrested for doing it in public. So I'm not sure how you can say it's not acceptable.

I disagree with your 2nd point as well. I think the gay community on average is probably more sexually uninhibited than the non-gay community on average. They are already "abnormal" in terms in sexual preference and it's probably less of a jump to try some fetish or kinky stuff when you're already bucking the trends. The gay people I've known are on average less sexually repressed than a lot of the non-gay people I've known.