New video shows Vancouver Police shooting injured, unarmed man in the head

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I got mugged by a Lebanese dude once - brown dudes sure make it easy to hate them.

Thats your prerogative. Based off most incidents I read about officers (namely involving some form of misconduct), the crap I personally see from officers, and the stories I hear from others regarding officers, I think police make it easy to hate them. If you want to hate all brown people because of one guy, go for it, I won't be offended.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

Is it just me, or does this stuff happen in Vancouver at a disproportionately high rate of occurance?

The VPD are notoriously corrupt and thuggish. There's a reason B.C. is setting up the IIO out here.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Thats your prerogative. Based off most incidents I read about officers (namely involving some form of misconduct), the crap I personally see from officers, and the stories I hear from others regarding officers, I think police make it easy to hate them. If you want to hate all brown people because of one guy, go for it, I won't be offended.

But you do understand how utterly ridiculous it would be to base an opinion of all because of the actions of some right?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Of course I'm not saying all cops are evil. But I'm sorry a few can indeed ruin the image for all. Canucks riot last year maybe? Maybe 1-2% of the population is involved, but the 98-99% of people not involved get vilified too. Not all Vancouverites are rioters, but many (and I suspect many on this board) made some form of "Vancouver is full of rioters" or "Riot City" or some such.

[Coys1882]

I think that there is a very big difference between internet opinion and real opinion. I like to jump in on Vancouver residents too about the riot but when asked a serious question I think we all know that 99% of people living there are probably good people.

I feel the same about the police - if you think about how many cops in this city who help people every single day with their only praise being their paycheque; I find it hard to believe that people honestly think this is a reflection of cops as opposed to some bad seeds who happen to be cops.

I also think that anyone who thinks the opposite of that either is

a) very myopic of the world they live in or;
b) has WAY too many encounters with the police than a normal person should.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think my not liking policing isn't the same as not respect it. I have the utmost respect for police officers, as I do anyone who chooses civil service. These people don't get paid well and they do many great things for the community. Police are unique because they are outside of the military the only group who are authorized to use deadly force, so long as they justify it afterwards. I also think the power that comes with being an officer definitely corrupts. Power is the ultimate corruptor after all, even more than money, and when as an officer you can literally put someone in jail and possible ruin their career or life, or in this case end someone's life, its a ton of power they hold.

[GGG]

I think the cops went to far in this situation based on the descriptions I am not going to watch the video however I don't have sympathy for the person who died.

If you strike a cop or brandish any kid of weapon at a cop you have forfeited your life. Really, if you pull a weapon on anyone you have forfeited your life.

Did the police handle it well? No, Was it Murder, possibly but I agree that the first shots fired were justified and once that decision to shoot is made you are trained to shoot to kill.

So my question is legaly and morally is at what point do the police have to stop firing if a good decision was made to fire the first shot. I am interested in how the investigation plays out, hopefully it is very transparent and the law is followed regardless of the outcome.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Thats the thing though...The investigation has already happened, and he was cleared by the VPD's internal unit. This evidence is new, and is actually being reviewed here in Alberta by the ASIRT rather than by the VPD. I'm glad its going to reviewed externally and by an independent group.

[Flash Walken]

As others have said, the VPD has a reputation for thuggery that would put some other jurisdictions to shame.

The actual figure is unavailable, but from city documents it's been relayed to me that the VPD has settled out of court for roughly 20 million dollars in the last decade for excessive force cases.

As these are sealed based on settlement, we'll never know the extent, but I've also had it relayed to me that 20 million may be half the total.

There is a legitimate problem with public policing in this city.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I've met far more bad cops than good.

I find that impossible to believe.

I've lived 50+ years and I can count the number of 'bad cops' I've encountered over the years (and I was no choirboy) on one hand.

If you're serious with this comment, I can't help think that it's a reflection on your attitude towards police in general, or that you've been on the 'wrong' side of a brush with the law.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I find that impossible to believe.

I've lived 50+ years and I can count the number of 'bad cops' I've encountered over the years (and I was no choirboy) on one hand.

If you're serious with this comment, I can't help think that it's a reflection on your attitude towards police in general, or that you've been on the 'wrong' side of a brush with the law.

Your generation of police was likely different than his.

[CaptainCrunch]

I've never met a bad cop, I met a really lazy one once, but that's completely different.

But Vancouver does seem to have its share of problem officers.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Your generation of police was likely different than his.

Perhaps. I had considered that, however it doesn't change the fact that I rarely even find myself interacting with the police, other than say for the odd traffic ticket or accident. If someone has had so many repeated dealings with the cops, enough that they have developed a 'grudge' against the police, I have to wonder why.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I've never met a bad cop, I met a really lazy one once, but that's completely different.

But Vancouver does seem to have its share of problem officers.

It really is a problem here.

The prairies have stuff like starlight tours, Vancouver has wildly unstable officers keen on physical confrontation and a revolving door of commissioners who condone it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Perhaps. I had considered that, however it doesn't change the fact that I rarely even find myself interacting with the police, other than say for the odd traffic ticket or accident. If someone has had so many repeated dealings with the cops, enough that they have developed a 'grudge' against the police, I have to wonder why.

Well, I can't speak for that poster, but I'm more or less a law abiding citizen who is keen on avoiding mischief and confrontation, and I've had more than my share of unfavourable run-ins with police.

Even when trying to avoid them, the police here are different.

More to your point, I also only ever seem to have a problem with younger officers.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think, to kinda defend the VPD?, they have to deal with a totally different environment than most other police jurisdictions, especially out west. I mean lets be real, there's nothing like the Downtown Eastside anywhere else in Canada. Not saying that forgives what seems like a pattern of excessive force, perhaps it explains it better.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think, to kinda defend the VPD?, they have to deal with a totally different environment than most other police jurisdictions, especially out west. I mean lets be real, there's nothing like the Downtown Eastside anywhere else in Canada. Not saying that forgives what seems like a pattern of excessive force, perhaps it explains it better.

Like AFC mentioned in another thread, from the cops I've talked to, the downtown east side (DTES) is one of the more preferred assignments for cops as it provides the police an opportunity to be actual 'police'.

Where most people have bad run-ins with police is in the area surrounding the DTES, areas like the West End, east Van near the PNE, south east towards Richmond and the bar district.

I was just down there yesterday, and walked the distance of Nanaimo to Abbott



It's not 'dangerous', it's saddening and filthy.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I'll just add I'm no Vancouver basher, I think its a beautiful city, even if the downtown skyline is a bit lacking. Interesting that officers would prefer the DTES because it actually allows them to police. Somewhat encouraging even (even if I don't consider going after addicts and lo level pushers to be policing)

My brother just made his first trip to Van last weekend to see Roger Waters and essentially said the DTES was the worst thing he's seen. Of course he should probably see an American inner city before making that judgement, but obviously its essentially a big open air drug market down there.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Like AFC mentioned in another thread, from the cops I've talked to, the downtown east side (DTES) is one of the more preferred assignments for cops as it provides the police an opportunity to be actual 'police'.

Where most people have bad run-ins with police is in the area surrounding the DTES, areas like the West End, east Van near the PNE, south east towards Richmond and the bar district.

I was just down there yesterday, and walked the distance of Nanaimo to Abbott



It's not 'dangerous', it's saddening and filthy.

My feelings exactly, I spend a fair amount of time down there, between shopping, concerts and dealing with my foster kids families and have never felt at risk.

[Vulcan]

When I moved to Calgary from Vancouver I found the Calgary police to have a whole better attitude than what I was use to in Vancouver. It was refreshing and of course there are the few exceptions to this from both cities.