Junior Seau Dead

[PeteLFan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I remember when Seau emerged with the Chargers in 1992. After a 1-4 start the Chargers came back to finish 11-5 and win the Division IIRC. After that the Chargers were a pretty competitive team for a few years with Seau leading their defence.

Hopefully if this does anything it will make players more aware of their own concussions, and give them more courage to speak up if they don't feel right. I understand that athletes get caught up in the moment of competition, but tragedies like this may be enough to make someone think, maybe this could be my future if I get back in there and take another big hit. RIP.

The average career in the nfl is short, and the time too make big money is small for a lot of guys. I don't think they will jeopardize careers, money during that time. Nfl is a business and cruel at times, teams are not afraid to cut players.

[KTown]

I remember watching him his whole career and it was even better when he was a Dolphin. I'm sure it has to do with mental health issues. I am sure we will find out once his brain is examined that he probably had about 30+ concussions that went undiagnosed because a player of his stature would never admit to one and probably played through it without evening mentioning a word to anyone or the medical staff as he probably never would want to have taken a play off.

I am pretty sure all football players know that they live for the moment and unfortunately some of them never recover from blows to the head and result to suicide. Very sad indeed. But it is part of the risks that they take for the millions that they make.

I'm sure 99% of us would have taken the same risk to play in such an awesome sport.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by KTown

I remember watching him his whole career and it was even better when he was a Dolphin. I'm sure it has to do with mental health issues. I am sure we will find out once his brain is examined that he probably had about 30+ concussions that went undiagnosed because a player of his stature would never admit to one and probably played through it without evening mentioning a word to anyone or the medical staff as he probably never would want to have taken a play off.

I am pretty sure all football players know that they live for the moment and unfortunately some of them never recover from blows to the head and result to suicide. Very sad indeed. But it is part of the risks that they take for the millions that they make.

I'm sure 99% of us would have taken the same risk to play in such an awesome sport.

I'm sure that we would have, but I'm not sure anymore. Football is just flat out brutal and takes a significant toll on your body. Very few make a great living out of and I'm not convinced it's worth it. For every Peyton Manning there are 50 guys who are one and done, made 400k, and have long term health effects of playing football until their mid twenties.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'm sure that we would have, but I'm not sure anymore. Football is just flat out brutal and takes a significant toll on your body. Very few make a great living out of and I'm not convinced it's worth it. For every Peyton Manning there are 50 guys who are one and done, made 400k, and have long term health effects of playing football until their mid twenties.

I wouldn't even point to Peyton Manning as a good example. Dude is likely going to have serious neck issues when he gets older. How many of these guys really walk away from the game on their own terms and without any problems down the line? They're few and far between. I love the NFL and I'm sure I always will, but it's getting harder and harder for me not to admit that it's a bloodsport.

[Cowboy89]

Very sad. Seau was my favourite player when I was growing up and playing Linebacker in School. Absolutely loved how he played and lead his defence. Still have a Seau Chargers and Seau Dolphins jersey.

[CaptainCrunch]

I remember watching Seau play and bringing in video for the high school linebackers that I coached on how to play the position right.

The guy was intense and understood the position well, and excelled at what he did. While suicide itself is a bleak and desparate act its not a lonely act, its not an act that takes place in a vacuum, so if your the type that mutters a little prayer when things like this happen, then make sure that you put his family into those prayers.

I'm really as a football fan hoping that this isn't another statistic on the emerging story about concussions and brain injuries in football. I guess we'll know in a couple of weeks after they autopsy his body. And in a way I hope that it is a concussion based injury, both so that it can call more attention to a major problem in the sporting world, and so that his children and the rest of the family can understand that it wasn't them that caused him to do this, that it was caused by something beyond anyone's control except Juniors.

We can sit here and say, he should have gotten help, or he should have reached out, but depression fueled by a damaged brain is a pretty powerful thing, any one who has struggled with depression or brain injury whether concussion related or any other type of injury can tell you about the bleak hopelessness and the day after day feeling that your own body is conspiring against you.

I'm not here to call Junior Seau selfish for doing this, a guy that goes out of his way to forget or hurt the ones he loves with one last desparate act to gain sympathy is selfish. The old "Wait until they live without me" or their lives are "Better off without me" type of suicides can be classed as self serving.

This probably isn't one of those cases.

I hope that Seau's high profile within the football community moves more levers and turns more wheels so that concussion or long term injury based situations happen less and less in the future.

RIP Junior.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not here to call Junior Seau selfish for doing this, a guy that goes out of his way to forget or hurt the ones he loves with one last desparate act to gain sympathy is selfish. The old "Wait until they live without me" or their lives are "Better off without me" type of suicides can be classed as self serving.

This probably isn't one of those cases.



RIP Junior.

I totally agree which is why I said in my one post that if brain injury is the cause that I totally retract what I posted about being selfish, some posters on here just choose to ignore that fact. Only time and testing will tell.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think you were jumped on a little harshly, but your initial post really invited that.

There are selfish suicides out there, you can't debate that. The people that take their lives with a bit of malicious intent. The divorced guy that wants to show his ex how wrong she is. the murder suicide things that we see quite oftent where the person that kills himself is luicide and just wats sympathy and thinks that he's going to get it from beyond the grave.

But man, I've dealt with long term debilitating effects from a whole mess of concussions, even today things are a little fuzzy around the edges for me. But when I was going through that healing process that seemed to last forever, there were some real dark times when I thought that I would never ever get better.

When you get tired of waking up with a 5 alarm headache, where every small noise sounds like a jackhammer. Someday I'll explain why I hate squirrels and their tappy little hands.

You get tired of being tired all the time, and not being able to concentrate.

I'm nowhere near the situation that Seau was probably in nor the pain that he was in. I got fortunate, I had a good family that continually monitored me and literally took my temperature for years and years after my last concussion because they could see the long term things were still happening.

I had great doctors that continued to make me come in and see them when I thought I didn't need to.

Right now the question has to be asked, what was Seau's support structure like?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I totally agree which is why I said in my one post that if brain injury is the cause that I totally retract what I posted about being selfish, some posters on here just choose to ignore that fact. Only time and testing will tell.

NM, no point

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I wouldn't even point to Peyton Manning as a good example. Dude is likely going to have serious neck issues when he gets older. How many of these guys really walk away from the game on their own terms and without any problems down the line? They're few and far between. I love the NFL and I'm sure I always will, but it's getting harder and harder for me not to admit that it's a bloodsport.

I was using Manning as an example because he's a guy who's played well into his thirties, made a tonne of money, won a championship, appeared on SNL and will go down as a legend but is going to have long term health consequences (i.e. the detriment was worth the fame and fortune).

The other guys live on effectively nameless and in some cases, penniless.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by KTown

I am pretty sure all football players know that they live for the moment and unfortunately some of them never recover from blows to the head and result to suicide. Very sad indeed. But it is part of the risks that they take for the millions that they make.

I'm sure 99% of us would have taken the same risk to play in such an awesome sport.

They all don't make millions. There are a lot of guys who over a 3 year career likely don't make a million in career earnings. Flying down the field and involved in collisions on special teams trying to make tackles. Better than they'll make doing anything else, but those guys will need to have some sort of career after football. Those are the guys most at risk to say they're okay and go back in a game when they really shouldn't.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I totally agree which is why I said in my one post that if brain injury is the cause that I totally retract what I posted about being selfish, some posters on here just choose to ignore that fact. Only time and testing will tell.

Maybe you should have waited until they figured out whether it was concussion related before making a extremely harsh observation of someone you know absolutely nothing about except that he played professional football. In fact I don't think anyone should be commenting on the selfishness of others who have not dealt with the pain of severe depression and by that I mean have had it themselves.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'm sure that we would have, but I'm not sure anymore. Football is just flat out brutal and takes a significant toll on your body. Very few make a great living out of and I'm not convinced it's worth it. For every Peyton Manning there are 50 guys who are one and done, made 400k, and have long term health effects of playing football until their mid twenties.

True enough but lets be honest most of these football players wouldn't be necessarly doing high end paying jobs. Most of them barely get into college and probably got some help to get in. This is there chance and they live for it and they know the risks getting involved for the short term glory. That's why I have no issues with guys pounding on each other. It's there risk and there lives.

I also do agree which way the NFL is trying to go with this and trying to make it safer. But I think the only reason the NFL and its owners care about making is safer is to drop the amount they must pay in medical insurance/benefits to retired players since they are not the same. Not because they care about there safety.

Nevertheless it is always tragic when someone takes there life because it could have somehow been preventable with the right help. Unfortunatley not many get it.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

They all don't make millions. There are a lot of guys who over a 3 year career likely don't make a million in career earnings. Flying down the field and involved in collisions on special teams trying to make tackles. Better than they'll make doing anything else, but those guys will need to have some sort of career after football. Those are the guys most at risk to say they're okay and go back in a game when they really shouldn't.

Agreed, but in those 3 years most of those players won't likely have paying jobs higher than 30 - 40K a year without football. So the amount made in those 3 years could equate to what they made in a lifetime.

If you really want to get down to it. 95% of the guys that don't make it past college got no compensation and that football is at quite a high level as well.

No risk means you have no chance of getting off that special team unit one day. I'm sure 90%+ of those players on special teams are hoping to get there shot at more than just special teams.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Maybe you should have waited until they figured out whether it was concussion related before making a extremely harsh observation of someone you know absolutely nothing about except that he played professional football. In fact I don't think anyone should be commenting on the selfishness of others who have not dealt with the pain of severe depression and by that I mean have had it themselves.

I have severe depression, I take Ciprolex every day to keep it at bay. I was involved in a very bad car accident in 1999 that left me with a closed head injury. Not once no matter how depressed I have been have I ever thought of suicide because I am aware of what it would do to family and friends, I could never do something that would destroy the lives of my family like that. Maybe other posters should wait to see if it was concussion related before defending his actions too. Did he ever think about what the impact of his actions would be on his kids? On his mother? On his friends? And don't give me any B.S. about being so depressed that you can't see anything else but ending your own torment, if he was that bad I am sure somebody would have noticed. Didn't his ex wife say that he seemed fine last they talked? When I was severly depressed people knew it, I didn't leave me room, had no interest in anything and they convinced me I needed help. This to me sounded more like a snap decision to not deal with his issues and if that is the case he is selfish, what he has done to his family is unforgivable. Even if he has depression from post concussion syndrome it is still treatable, there is zero excuse not to get help in this day and age and especially with the resources somebody of his financial stature has. Look at Michael Landsberg of TSN and his story, he also battles severe depression and he got the help he needed because he knew he needed it and anybody suffering from depression will be told by friends and loved ones they need help, it is very easy to see in somebody. Depression is a disease but it is a treatable one and taking your own life is not the right answer, it is a selfish one.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have severe depression, I take Ciprolex every day to keep it at bay. I was involved in a very bad car accident in 1999 that left me with a closed head injury. Not once no matter how depressed I have been have I ever thought of suicide because I am aware of what it would do to family and friends, I could never do something that would destroy the lives of my family like that. Maybe other posters should wait to see if it was concussion related before defending his actions too. Did he ever think about what the impact of his actions would be on his kids? On his mother? On his friends? And don't give me any B.S. about being so depressed that you can't see anything else but ending your own torment, if he was that bad I am sure somebody would have noticed. Didn't his ex wife say that he seemed fine last they talked? When I was severly depressed people knew it, I didn't leave me room, had no interest in anything and they convinced me I needed help. This to me sounded more like a snap decision to not deal with his issues and if that is the case he is selfish, what he has done to his family is unforgivable. Even if he has depression from post concussion syndrome it is still treatable, there is zero excuse not to get help in this day and age and especially with the resources somebody of his financial stature has. Look at Michael Landsberg of TSN and his story, he also battles severe depression and he got the help he needed because he knew he needed it and anybody suffering from depression will be told by friends and loved ones they need help, it is very easy to see in somebody. Depression is a disease but it is a treatable one and taking your own life is not the right answer, it is a selfish one.

For someone who has faced depression that statement is incredibly ignorant.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have severe depression, I take Ciprolex every day to keep it at bay. I was involved in a very bad car accident in 1999 that left me with a closed head injury. Not once no matter how depressed I have been have I ever thought of suicide because I am aware of what it would do to family and friends, I could never do something that would destroy the lives of my family like that.

And so your experiences with depression can be universally applied to everyone who suffers from it? Depression manifests itself in a variety of different ways.

Maybe other posters should wait to see if it was concussion related before defending his actions too. Did he ever think about what the impact of his actions would be on his kids? On his mother? On his friends? And don't give me any B.S. about being so depressed that you can't see anything else but ending your own torment, if he was that bad I am sure somebody would have noticed.

All aboard the ignorance train. Many suicides happen when people are least expecting them to. That's why they happen, because nobody around the person recognizes that anything is wrong until it's too late. Some people are very good at suppressing their emotions when they're severely depressed, and in an enivornment such as the one Seau lived in, it's not surprising at all that he would have.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have severe depression, I take Ciprolex every day to keep it at bay. I was involved in a very bad car accident in 1999 that left me with a closed head injury. Not once no matter how depressed I have been have I ever thought of suicide because I am aware of what it would do to family and friends, I could never do something that would destroy the lives of my family like that. Maybe other posters should wait to see if it was concussion related before defending his actions too. Did he ever think about what the impact of his actions would be on his kids? On his mother? On his friends? And don't give me any B.S. about being so depressed that you can't see anything else but ending your own torment, if he was that bad I am sure somebody would have noticed. Didn't his ex wife say that he seemed fine last they talked? When I was severly depressed people knew it, I didn't leave me room, had no interest in anything and they convinced me I needed help. This to me sounded more like a snap decision to not deal with his issues and if that is the case he is selfish, what he has done to his family is unforgivable. Even if he has depression from post concussion syndrome it is still treatable, there is zero excuse not to get help in this day and age and especially with the resources somebody of his financial stature has. Look at Michael Landsberg of TSN and his story, he also battles severe depression and he got the help he needed because he knew he needed it and anybody suffering from depression will be told by friends and loved ones they need help, it is very easy to see in somebody. Depression is a disease but it is a treatable one and taking your own life is not the right answer, it is a selfish one.

I don't know where to begin with this post, I take such great offense to nearly everything you said and the tone you've used to do it with. I'm baffled at how you managed to stuff that much ignorance into one post.


Depression is different for every single person that suffers from it. It takes on so many different shapes and forms, it's the furthest thing in the world from black and white. Depression is not as simple as hiding in your room, not wanting to do anything. Some of the most incredibly intelligent and successful people in the world, suffer from it. It can be next to impossible to see through it, notice any warning signs, and people with depression will sometimes do as much as they can, to make people believe they are the furthest thing from being depressed.

I relate a lot of how people view depression and mental illness, to how people view alcoholism. Both are a terrible disease to have and nearly impossible for an outsider to understand how an alcoholic's brain functions, yet so many do. Craig Ferguson has a great monologue on depression/alcoholic on youtube, that would do you wonders to watch. He suffers from alcoholism and how he does not crave the drink like a drug, but simply cannot function and stop at 1 if he has any. Even as an alcoholic himself, he talks about being unable to understand the other side of alcoholism and how someone's brain must work when there is a need for alcohol, above everything else.

While no one can say for sure that Junior suffered from depression, his ex-teammate, Marcellus Wiley, gave an emotional interview to ESPN where he described Junior as a man who, among many admirable qualities, refused to show weakness or pain

People who commit suicide can have such a high level of empathy for the people around them, they believe they are doing a good thing in taking their lives. Going their entire lives, not wanting to put their guilt on anyone close to them or have people pity them. And in a lot of cases, some people just don't have the support group that a lot of us are blessed with. There is nobody to turn to, nobody truly invested in your day to day life.

You speak about the resources out there, and I applaud you for that. Depression in society still has an incredibly long way to go however. There are still so many misconceptions and shame associated with it, people still feel incredibly embarrassed to admit or talk openly about it. There is still so much work to be done for this cause. And someone's income level, does not change their situation one bit.


Winston Chang, wrote an incredibly intelligent article about whether or not Seau's death was preventable:

http://blog.sfgate.com/wchung/2012/0...h-preventable/

While many are speculating about how football-related brain injury may have contributed to Junior Seau’s death, I wonder if social stigma about mental health may have kept him from opening up about and receiving treatment for emotional pain.

Some of the medical students I teach express discomfort in asking patients about suicidality. Why is it that a physician won’t bat an eye when asking about congestion, coughs, or headaches but might feel awkward, and subsequently not ask, about suicidality or depression? The tip-toeing about mental health issues, as if it is something to be more ashamed of than other diagnoses, is still ingrained in our health care system and reflects how stigma continues to keep many mental health problems in a dark, muffled hole.

Countertransference, or a clinicians reaction to patients, can sometimes alter our behavior toward a patient. If Junior were not a San Diego and NFL icon, would the police or hospital staff that saw him in 2010 have been less revering and more assertive in ruling out suicidality?

The issue being refereed to is

When Junior drove his car off a cliff after being arrested for domestic violence in 2010, Marcellus questioned whether there may have been more to the story than Junior falling asleep at the wheel. TMZ first reported about Junior denying a suicide attempt in 2010:

Junior Seautold police that he wasn’t trying to commit suicide when he drove off a cliff in Carlsbad, CA early this morning — insisting that he simply fell asleep at the wheel.
Seau told police that he simply nodded off in the driver’s seat of his Cadillac Escalade in the hours after his arrest for allegedly attacking his 25-year-old girlfriend — and never intended to drive off the cliff.
We’re told Seau showed no outward signs of being under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Persons familiar with the road say the section Seau drove off was not curved, according to an article about the incident from Yahoo! Sports. The police ruled out suicide in this incident, and Seau was treated and released from the local hospital without any apparent psychiatric evaluation – though this is not known for sure. After Seau’s death, I can’t help but wonder if Junior was suicidal in 2010 and how less stigma about mental health might have changed his trajectory.

This would appear to be the furthest thing from a decision made because he was having a bad day or in a split second. Compound that with the chance of serious head injuries during his playing days, calling his family a day before to tell them he loves and it begins to be even harder to get inside his head. You tried to in this post, divide posters that disagree with you as being ones "defending him". That is such a short minded and offensive title to give some of the people who have posted on this thread. The evidence available to us points to this being an incredibly complex situation and it appears all anyone in this thread have been doing is showing empathy and talking about how painful depression and mental ilness can be.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have severe depression, I take Ciprolex every day to keep it at bay. I was involved in a very bad car accident in 1999 that left me with a closed head injury. Not once no matter how depressed I have been have I ever thought of suicide because I am aware of what it would do to family and friends, I could never do something that would destroy the lives of my family like that. Maybe other posters should wait to see if it was concussion related before defending his actions too. Did he ever think about what the impact of his actions would be on his kids? On his mother? On his friends? And don't give me any B.S. about being so depressed that you can't see anything else but ending your own torment, if he was that bad I am sure somebody would have noticed. Didn't his ex wife say that he seemed fine last they talked? When I was severly depressed people knew it, I didn't leave me room, had no interest in anything and they convinced me I needed help. This to me sounded more like a snap decision to not deal with his issues and if that is the case he is selfish, what he has done to his family is unforgivable. Even if he has depression from post concussion syndrome it is still treatable, there is zero excuse not to get help in this day and age and especially with the resources somebody of his financial stature has. Look at Michael Landsberg of TSN and his story, he also battles severe depression and he got the help he needed because he knew he needed it and anybody suffering from depression will be told by friends and loved ones they need help, it is very easy to see in somebody. Depression is a disease but it is a treatable one and taking your own life is not the right answer, it is a selfish one.

5 years ago my wifes lifelong best friend stayed with us while she was renovating her house for 3 weeks...day after day she came back in time for supper and whatever else the two of them were planning...til one night she didnt and we went to check on her.

We found her at the end of a rope.

Simply the most devastated i have ever seen another human being when i saw my wifes eyes afterwards.

So dont ever EVER suggest that "someone would have noticed" because i lived it man....and there was absolutely no sign that anything that drastic was about to occur.

[Drake]

OCEANSIDE -- The family of deceased NFL star Junior Seau has decided to allow researchers to study his brain for evidence of damage as the result of concussions, San Diego Chargers chaplain Shawn Mitchell said.

"The family was considering this almost from the beginning, but they didn't want to make any emotional decisions," Mitchell told The Times on Thursday night. "And when they came to a joint decision that absolutely this was the best thing, it was a natural occurrence for the Seau family to go forward."

Mitchell said the family came to the decision to allow Seau's brain to be studied "to help other individuals down the road."

"When it happens to a person that I feel pretty confident has been exposed to repeat concussions, my first thought was, did somebody do what they could to make sure this individual knew what his exposure was in terms of concussions?" he said. "What the cost was going to be after he finished his career, and what he should look out for? Was the family notified? And did he get help if he needed it?"

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...,1280862.story