The death of the penny

[blankall]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

It's not illegal to melt down Canadian coins in other countries (China, US, etc)

I doubt that's true. Don't think it would be any different than conspiring to commit any crime here and then commiting it outside our borders.

Even if it were true, you're now looking at shipping costs. Copper is heavy.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by blankall

I doubt that's true. Don't think it would be any different than conspiring to commit any crime here and then commiting it outside our borders.

Even if it were true, you're now looking at shipping costs. Copper is heavy.

With VERY few exceptions the criminal law of one country doesn't apply in another.

If you're conspiring to commit a crime here, conspiracy itself is a crime. But if you conspire to rob a bank in Seattle from Calgary, you'd be charged with conspiracy in Canada but not robbery (however you would be extricated to face criminal trial in the US).

It's the same way draft dodgers fled the US to the safety of Canada. They didn't commit a crime here, so they weren't charged here.

Or, you're an 18 year old from the US, say Albany. You plan to travel to Montréal for spring break. You plan your trip, which bars you want to go to, and strip clubs to check out. You go to Montréal, drink, gamble and get lap dances. Then return to New York where you have to be 21 to do all those things. The law of New York doesn't apply as you were complying with the law of another country.

It's possible that the US laws say you can't melt down legal tender period. Meaning foreign currency as well. But if it's only US currency then melt down the Canadian stuff all you want, but as previously stated, it's probably not cost effective.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by blankall

I doubt that's true. Don't think it would be any different than conspiring to commit any crime here and then commiting it outside our borders.

Even if it were true, you're now looking at shipping costs. Copper is heavy.

It would have to be two different parties. As an example, it would be legal for me to sell a large number of old pennies to a chinese national. It would be legal for him to ship them via boat to China. And it would be legal (in China) for him to melt them down and sell the copper.

I'm not saying it's economic to do so (as mentioned the transportation costs would be large) but nobody in that chain of events would be breaking the law.

[undercoverbrother]

part of me was worried this thread was about:

[The Yen Man]

I think I have a 1927 penny stashed away somewhere. I wonder if it will be worth something someday.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I think I have a 1927 penny stashed away somewhere. I wonder if it will be worth something someday.

Probably not the millions or even hundreds you are thinking. my 1927 dollar bill is probably worth more

[getbak]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

You could have save a lot of typing by saying round everything to the nearest nickel.

Well, yeah, but that seemed obvious and yet there was still the question, so I thought I'd spell it out.

Besides, it was pretty much a copy and paste job.


For those who like pretty pictures:



Also...





Once again, Alberta gets screwed by Ontario. Not only do they get to have a sandwich with their coffee, their coffee is also 30 cents cheaper, and they get to save a penny due to rounding, where we have to pay more.

[WhiteTiger]

Glad to see this go.

Should make for some real fun tiffs at the till, watching folks lose it over rounding up or down.

[Yamer]

At first, I was a little miffed at the rounding. Hey, I'm in University...I need every penny I can get. Then I realized that over time the rounding up/down will likely cancel itself out, so I'll be taking just as much as I'll be giving.

Also, I second the "include GST in the list price". It's actually ridiculous that they don't do this already.

[onetwo_threefour]

I plan on always making money. I will use cash for any transaction that rounds down and debit for any transaction that rounds up.

I'm going to be RICH!! RICH!! RICH!!

[calumniate]

Lets all pool our pennies together and make a big skyscraper

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

I plan on always making money. I will use cash for any transaction that rounds down and debit for any transaction that rounds up.

I'm going to be RICH!! RICH!! RICH!!

Paying exact with debit has no advantage to now so I'll only calculate the savings from rounding down.

Even at 2 transactions per day you would only save $600 in 80 years. But even that's stretching it because you probably don't have 80 years left to live.

.02x365x80=$584

Edit I guess you could save 2 cents per trx for about $1200.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Paying exact with debit has no advantage to now so I'll only calculate the savings from rounding down.

Even at 2 transactions per day you would only save $600 in 80 years.

.02x365x80=$584

Edit I guess you could save 2 cents per trx for about $1200.

Or an hour of billed time for onetwo_threefour

[Otto29]

Let's be clear. The penny will continue to be valid currency. Retailers will just not be able to charge to the penny. This also means that if a penny doesn't exist in Canada then a price of .97 cents shouldn't either (time for another rollback walmart)

If this is not the case then the government didn't really think this through (no surprise). You all know there will be many retailers that will always round up. its not hard to hid that stuff in the Point of Sale software so unless you are really good at math and feel like figuring out math at 6 am before you drink that coffee then you get a little bit screwed but the retailers get extra to their bottom line.

Example: If something costs $1.50 and they charge GST then the actual cost is $1.575. which way do you go. Obviously up even though its dead in between. With the penny that would be $1.58 and without the penny its $1.60. I know its not a big deal.

My overall point is that the penny needs to go away completely and the only way that happens is the removal of taxes like GST and PST while making retailers price to the nearest nickle. Ain't going to happen

Thats just my .05

[getbak]

Here's a story about the US keeping its penny despite it costing 2.4 cents to produce each one: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...coin-farewell/

The penny may not buy much anymore, but it has some mighty defenders.

First and foremost, there’s a interest group called Americans for Common Cents. They are argue that the penny has special place in American history, that losing it would cost prices to go up and even that charities that collect pennies at the cash register would lose money.

Losing the penny would also hurt the company that funds Americans for Common Cents in business: Jarden Zinc Products, that sells zinc to the mint. Copper plated pennies are 97.5 percent zinc and only 2.5 percent copper.

Jarden is the sole supplier of the zinc the U.S. Mint uses to make the penny. And the Mint tells ABC News that Jarden was paid $27.4 million in 2010 for zinc to make pennies. Last year, due to rising prices, Jarden was paid $52.2 million by the mint.

[Kipperriffic]

dividng by 5 is much easier. I like.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Otto29

Example: If something costs $1.50 and they charge GST then the actual cost is $1.575. which way do you go. Obviously up even though its dead in between. With the penny that would be $1.58 and without the penny its $1.60. I know its not a big deal.

There is a flaw in that strategy. What happens when I buy two of that item? Now I am paying $3.16, so the retailer will be rounding down. There is no way to ensure that most of the time the person will be rounding up if buying 2 or more items. So there is no advantage for the retailer to take a "Superman III/ Office Space" approach to getting us to pay more.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by getbak

Here's a story about the US keeping its penny despite it costing 2.4 cents to produce each one: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...coin-farewell/

This is precisely the kind of crappy special interests politics that needs to be avoided as much as possible. I'm glad Canada is outsmarting the US here.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by ken0042

There is a flaw in that strategy. What happens when I buy two of that item? Now I am paying $3.16, so the retailer will be rounding down. There is no way to ensure that most of the time the person will be rounding up if buying 2 or more items. So there is no advantage for the retailer to take a "Superman III/ Office Space" approach to getting us to pay more.

Exactly! Some people just don't get it. I can't beleive some think it's a huge conspiracy from the govt to nickle and dime us one penny at a time.

[sevenarms]

Just eliminate all cash! Jeez.