Hockey Calgary looks to ban body checking

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Splitting them would dilute the skill level and cause too much discrepancy within teams and leagues.

[showtime]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

The full journal article is on the CMAJ website, methinks.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...rticle2067916/

Those numbers are wonky. Using the numbers from Bantam and Midget in the period post rule change to prove the point. But none of the players who would have been affected by the rule change would have even been in midget, and half wouldnt have even played in Bantam yet.

I also want to know on this study how many were minor concussions where the player returned to action 3-5 days after ( as if you go in say you have a headache and played hockey you're diagnosed with minor concussion) Plus when did concussion awareness really come to the forefront. I seem to remember around Bantam starting to hear about it and see posters regarding it around the rink. Which would have been right around 2000 and where the study saw the major increase.

I've coached Bantam hockey for 5 years now and have had 2 players miss time for concussions. Both this season. One returned less then a week later and the over a month. Neither were from hits.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Maybe it gives them an idea how to protect themselves, but they still get injured just as often. Not much protection really

I'm not sure what your point is here. NHL players get injured too, and they are in top physical condition, and probably the most equal from player to player compared to the other leagues below them.

We all feel bad for your kid. I've seen kids get hurt too after someone hit them in the numbers, but hockey is a contact sport, and removing hitting from the equation is not going to solve the injury problem. If anything, kids need to be taught hitting at a younger age so they are given more time to learn the safety aspect, including how they need to be responsible.

IMO, the most important part that is lacking from hockey is the lack of respect from player to player. I've played 'rec' hockey too where contact is allowed, and I've never EVER seen a concussion. There have been a few close calls, but for the most part the hitting is relatively clean, and most players let up when they see that the other guy doesn't see them coming. A hard hit turns into a routine physical play where player is removed from the puck using a body check. Which is exactly what it was meant to be used for.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Azure

IMO, the most important part that is lacking from hockey is the lack of respect from player to player. I've played 'rec' hockey too where contact is allowed, and I've never EVER seen a concussion.

How can you "see" a concussion? The injury could manifest much later than the actual contact. You may not even be able to pin-point which hit(s) caused the concussion. I assume many concussions are not diagnosed, or not reported.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by troutman

How can you "see" a concussion? The injury could manifest much later than the actual contact. You may not even be able to pin-point which hit(s) caused the concussion. I assume many concussions are not diagnosed, or not reported.

There have been accidental hits to the head, and the guys who got hit went to get checked.

I work with most of the guys I play with, and it would be rather obvious if he was having problems.

Obviously I can't be sure, but given the small amounts of hits that involve the head, I would venture a very strong guess that concussions simply aren't a serious problem.

The point I'm trying to make is that the body check should be taught as a method to separate player from puck, not to 'hurt' the opposing player. And too many times in hockey players are hitting to 'hurt.' Being a bigger guy I've had the chance to 'cream' a lot of smaller players that I play against who had their head down coming across the neutral zone, but I hold back. There is still contact involved, but it usually involves me bracing myself, and them bouncing off. And I've gotten frustrated and pissed off too. If you have respect for the players you play against, it is possible to play hockey without hurting them. Obviously you have to protect yourself though.

[hayduke's dad]

I think that it should be left for AA and higher if it is left in minor hockey. As a trainer in minor hockey have seen 2 kids finished for contact sports due to hits 1 clean 1 dirty. No need for a 12 year old to have his/her life ruined.

[Flacker]

I really think the earlier hitting is introduced to the game, the less risk to the player. Players can learn to adjust and find their role without a large difference in physical size.

The earlier that hockey players learn to keep their head up the better.

Keep in mind, I don't have a horse in this race. I don't have any children in minor hockey in Calgary.

[RinkRat]

I always thought the Calgary teams that came to my rink to play were at a disadvantage due to less ice time, now they will simply be less prepared in terms of game skills as well. The domination will continue I suppose. As much as people hate on Airdrie on CP, we have an Excellent Bantam AAA program. Now if Calgary could scoop up Rattie from St. Louis to play with Sven I would be a happy man.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm not sure what your point is here. NHL players get injured too, and they are in top physical condition, and probably the most equal from player to player compared to the other leagues below them.

We all feel bad for your kid. I've seen kids get hurt too after someone hit them in the numbers, but hockey is a contact sport, and removing hitting from the equation is not going to solve the injury problem. If anything, kids need to be taught hitting at a younger age so they are given more time to learn the safety aspect, including how they need to be responsible.

IMO, the most important part that is lacking from hockey is the lack of respect from player to player. I've played 'rec' hockey too where contact is allowed, and I've never EVER seen a concussion. There have been a few close calls, but for the most part the hitting is relatively clean, and most players let up when they see that the other guy doesn't see them coming. A hard hit turns into a routine physical play where player is removed from the puck using a body check. Which is exactly what it was meant to be used for.

My point is that non competitive minor hockey has no need for hitting. "learning" how to hit or take a hit does not protect a player from injury. You say taking hitting out does not solve the injury problem, but it decreases injuries significantly. "Learning" how to hit has been proven not to.

I understand there should be hitting at some level, but the system we had here made no sense.

[iLoveLamp]

Alright, briefly scrolled through each page of the thread and figured I'm the only one that has played minor hockey in Calgary. I was never a NHL bound player, and mostly played in the lower divisions, for fun.

First off, it could be a good idea. In my first year of pee-wee, being 11 years old, most of the kids were bigger than myself and although I never got injured I can see how other kids could have. I played with one guy who at 11 years old, was about 5'11 170 pounds, and he was suspended several times that season for hitting players from behind, elbowing, etc. because he was too big and couldn't help himself when hitting other players.

Now, when I went into my second year of peewee at 12 years old, I found myself A LOT bigger than most of the other players and completely dominated most players. I was suspended once that season because of a questionable elbowing call on a player that was much smaller than me.

If hitting was outlawed in the lower divisions from peewee onward, I believe it would encourage a lot more kids to play. I played with a lot of guys that quit because they were "too small to play" and would get hurt almost every game because they weren't fast enough or weren't skilled enough.

In addition to this, I think hitting should be introduced in peewee in the higher divisions (such as div 1-3) so that they can be prepared when they get to bantam AAA or AA or whatever they decide to try out for if they have some kind of a shot of making it to the WHL or even the NHL.

In conclusion, kids probably shouldn't be hitting unless they have an outside chance of making it to a higher league.

I am also sorry if this post made no sense at all, I am kind of drunk, had to put my 2 cents in (what are we going to call it now that the penny is gone?). I'll look over it in the morning and see if I can add any insight and make any adjustments to my post.

[SeeBass]

It has been a few decades since I had anything to do with minor hockey.

Has there been some massive increase of kids getting hurt that I am not aware of?

[18flames]

Hockey in Calgary is such a big joke now, First year AAA and AA kids are going to get more injured because of no experience with hitting. Sure, you're going to have less injuries in Peewee, but when you go from no hitting to a league full of second year kids who have been hitting for a full year now, good luck.

[Huntingwhale]

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

My point is that non competitive minor hockey has no need for hitting. "learning" how to hit or take a hit does not protect a player from injury. You say taking hitting out does not solve the injury problem, but it decreases injuries significantly. "Learning" how to hit has been proven not to.

I understand there should be hitting at some level, but the system we had here made no sense.

I have no problem if there are non-competitive leagues set up that discourage 'hits'....and encourage just 'rubbing out.' But for players that take hockey seriously, and play in competitive leagues, hitting needs to be taught as early as possible.

Hockey is a contact sport though, and if hitting is not allowed, players tend to skate around with their head down, and injuries can happen because of that.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Azure

Hockey is a contact sport though, and if hitting is not allowed, players tend to skate around with their head down, and injuries can happen because of that.

it is hockey dogma that introducing hitting early prevents this. It sounds good but has actually never been proven. If anything, studies seem to suggest the opposite.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

it is hockey dogma that introducing hitting early prevents this. It sounds good but has actually never been proven. If anything, studies seem to suggest the opposite.

I think its more common sense than anything. If kids are going to play in competitive leagues where there will be hitting, better they learn the idea of hitting when everyone is at a more equal level physically, then to step into a higher league where there is a huge difference between size, and get killed because you have not yet learned how to keep your head up.

As for not being proven, weren't there studies mentioned earlier in this thread? SutterDynasty for one mentioned something.

[puffnstuff]

The vote is this weekend at the HC AGM

[Northendzone]

Based on the last informal information I heard, it seemed that the associations were going to opt to vote no, and hitting would continue. It was expected that hockey Calgary would then quit offering insurance to players and this cost would be shifted to each association.

[puffnstuff]

I have heard some stories about HC really wanting this to pass and...well they aren't good stories.
I think that there are other options available rather than this ban that only applies to Calgary players. As well, the committee that HC had looking at this, formed at last years AGM, did not actually recommend what is currently up for the vote. My opinion is that what has been going on does not look good on HC at all, rather shameful in fact.

[Rerun]

I hope it passes. Too many kids get out of hockey at this age because its just becoming too rough. Hockey should be a fun game, especially for kids of this age and younger. They shouldn't have to play while continually looking over their shoulder for the gorilla on the other team who could destroy them.