4 Dead from highway crash on QE2

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't see how a forced blood sample is too intrusive if you give the guy the option of a breathalyser. Four people died and you aren't going to help us determine what caused the accident because you're worried you'll get in trouble. Go fata yourself, we'll just get a needle.

Fortunately Canada is a country in which everyone has rights, including people accused of crimes.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Starfishy

This is really very sad for the victims and families. However, I am a little bit surprised about how many people think the death penalty or life is appropriate here. Murder? I have yet to see the evidence that he had any premeditaion or intent to kill anyone here. Involuntary manslaughter would be a good charge perhaps? Is this his first offense?

I would like to see a person like this punished and rehabilitated. He made a very big mistake and showed very poor judgement, but I can't see any proof of intent here. From the limited information I have seen, this could very well be an 18 year old kid that made a very stupid mistake.

I assure you I feel just as awful as any of you do about the victims and the families.

I agree, no death penalty. I'm not really in favour of that ever anyways. But as u said, an eyewitness claims this guy swerved and just missed him just prior to the actual accident. If that's true, seems like a fair bit of intent to me.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by Lt.Spears

Blood is property, you would need a warrant from a judge in order to extract it.

I'm well aware of the legalities around taking a blood sample...but I was just making the point that a breath sample isn't the only way of obtaining a sample.

Furthermore, presuming the offender was transported to a hospital, I wouldn't be surprised if the mounties did a warrant to obtain his blood from the hospital, and then charge him with impaired driving, impaired over 0.08, and refusal.

At that point, the offender doesn't need to consent to it, its property of the hospital, and a judge can allow that to be given to the police.

[Flabbibulin]

The guy's name is Tyler James Stevens from Cochrane.

[meanmachine13]

If he swerved to miss a previous car I dont believe he intended to hit anyone. Especially seeing as how he was presumably under the influence his judgement would be impaired as well.

Everyone always argues that penalties need to be stricter and punishments more harsh....but in reality harsher punishments/sentences do not have any sort of deterrent factor and actually increase the chances of re-offending.

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I agree, no death penalty. I'm not really in favour of that ever anyways. But as u said, an eyewitness claims this guy swerved and just missed him just prior to the actual accident. If that's true, seems like a fair bit of intent to me.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

The guy's name is Tyler James Stevens from Cochrane.

Dammit. 95% sure I grew up with him. Had a lot going for him... how anybody can do this is mind-blowing.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Starfishy

This is really very sad for the victims and families. However, I am a little bit surprised about how many people think the death penalty or life is appropriate here. Murder? I have yet to see the evidence that he had any premeditaion or intent to kill anyone here. Involuntary manslaughter would be a good charge perhaps? Is this his first offense?

I would like to see a person like this punished and rehabilitated. He made a very big mistake and showed very poor judgement, but I can't see any proof of intent here. From the limited information I have seen, this could very well be an 18 year old kid that made a very stupid mistake.

I assure you I feel just as awful as any of you do about the victims and the families.

I will never ever consider drinking and driving to be simply poor judgement, its the same to me as putting on a blindfold and firing a gun down a occupied street.

Diminished capacity is 0 excuse to me because you have the option to make other arrangements before you start drinking.

To me the act of getting plowed and getting into a car is a decision that you made, you have to live with that decision, whether its busting through someones fence or wiiping out a family.

We are hearing far to many cases of this bullsh$t, maybe people aren't learning even though we see anti drinking and driving ads in print radio and T.V.

To me this is outright murder, it's not first degree murder, but it is murder, and its not manslaughter. You made a decision to put other peoples lives in jeopardy and that's the decision that you have to live with.

Its simple, hey I'm going out drinking, maybe I should make sure I have cab money, or a buddy to pick me up, or a bus schedule.

And to another point, the minute that you take another person's life, then there has to be a harsh punishment element to any form of rehabilitation, and since we can't use the bull whip anymore then he should have his freedom taken away so that he can be haunted by his act for a good long time.

How many times in the last few years have we read about people who continually drink and drive?

Its way too many.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me this is outright murder, it's not first degree murder, but it is murder, and its not manslaughter. You made a decision to put other peoples lives in jeopardy and that's the decision that you have to live with.

The whole murder/manslaughter thing is really just debating the codification of the offense in whatever jurisdiction. Depending on where you are the labels may change for the same offense.

The common law definition requires a homicide to include "malice aforethought" in order to fall into the realm of murder, otherwise you're into manslaughter. That definition says that "malice" is found where there is a) intent to kill, b) intent to cause serious bodily harm, c) extreme reckless disregard for the value of human life, or d) intent to commit a felony during which a death results.

I'd have a hard time seeing this as anything but murder under c) of that definition.

Where it falls in the Canadian justice system I don't know, but hopefully it results in serious punishment.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by meanmachine13

If he swerved to miss a previous car I dont believe he intended to hit anyone. Especially seeing as how he was presumably under the influence his judgement would be impaired as well.

Everyone always argues that penalties need to be stricter and punishments more harsh....but in reality harsher punishments/sentences do not have any sort of deterrent factor and actually increase the chances of re-offending.

Impared judgement is not an excuse, period, he made the decision to drink and drive, with all of the public service messages etc there's no excuse.

He made a selfish me only decision, and it was a decision that he made.

He killed 4 people, Daniel Tschetter wiped out a family, they made a concious decision to put themselves above public safety, and someone else paid the price.

This to me isn't man slaughter, or a horrible accident,he did something that probably more then 3/4 or the population knows is dangerous and stupid.

And if your using the excuse that punishment will only make him re-offend more, then maybe he shouldn't be getting out of jail for a good long time.

F%%K him.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

The whole murder/manslaughter thing is really just debating the codification of the offense in whatever jurisdiction. Depending on where you are the labels may change for the same offense.

The common law definition requires a homicide to include "malice aforethought" in order to fall into the realm of murder, otherwise you're into manslaughter. That definition says that "malice" is found where there is a) intent to kill, b) intent to cause serious bodily harm, c) extreme reckless disregard for the value of human life, or d) intent to commit a felony during which a death results.

I'd have a hard time seeing this as anything but murder under c) of that definition.

Where it falls in the Canadian justice system I don't know, but hopefully it results in serious punishment.

Drinking and driving causing death really falls into the two highlighted area for me.

How is drunk driving not a prime definition of reckless disregard. And when he drunkenly put his keys into the ignition and pulled out of the parking lot that's intention to commit a felony.

I just have a hard time seeing this kind of thing as some horrible mistake.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Drinking and driving causing death really falls into the two highlighted area for me.

How is drunk driving not a prime definition of reckless disregard. And when he drunkenly put his keys into the ignition and pulled out of the parking lot that's intention to commit a felony.

I just have a hard time seeing this kind of thing as some horrible mistake.

I think you get into murky water when you start arguing intent simply due to the capacity issue. I agree with you in principle that it's a decision you make hours before, but I'm not sure how it holds up legally. Either way, you don't need to go there if the extraordinary level of recklessness is recognized as such, which really shouldn't be something that's even debatable, although it often is.

[Five-hole]

I could see drunk driving causing death being argued to be "extreme reckless disregard for human life", but sadly enough, it probably doesn't qualify. That definition requires a marked disregard from the norm. Drunk driving probably ain't that.

Now, if the dude intended to drive the wrong way down the highway, it probably does.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I could see drunk driving causing death being argued to be "extreme reckless disregard for human life", but sadly enough, it probably doesn't qualify. That definition requires a marked disregard from the norm. Drunk driving probably ain't that.

Now, if the dude intended to drive the wrong way down the highway, it probably does.

Since Drinking and driving is an illegal action and the act has the strong capability of causing grievous damage, and you make a decision to drink and drive, I would argue that the act of drinking and driving is wreckless disregard.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He killed 4 people, Daniel Tschetter wiped out a family,

Tschetter got like a 5 year sentence and it eligible for parole or at least day parole. This guy will probably get less or just the same.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Since Drinking and driving is an illegal action and the act has the strong capability of causing grievous damage, and you make a decision to drink and drive, I would argue that the act of drinking and driving is wreckless disregard.

Never mind the whole driving the wrong way for 30kms...

[ken0042]

Guys- I know this is an emotionally charged issue, but let's watch the profanity/ implied profanity.

I hate handing out infractions for posts that I also happen to agree with.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Tschetter got like a 5 year sentence and it eligible for parole or at least day parole. This guy will probably get less or just the same.

He's been on unescorted leave since 2011.

This new guy will probably get even less, Tschetter had 20 previous convictions.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Since Drinking and driving is an illegal action and the act has the strong capability of causing grievous damage, and you make a decision to drink and drive, I would argue that the act of drinking and driving is wreckless disregard.

The definition of murder which is "causing death while committing another illegal act" has a very restricted set of crimes that apply. They're all crimes that involve exerting some measure of control over the victim, like kidnapping, hijacking, rape, and robbery.

I did some research last night and it seems the harshest sentence given out for drinking and driving causing death is "criminal negligence causing death", which has a maximum sentence of 25 years but no minimum (unless the death is caused by a firearm, in which case the minimum sentence is 5 years).

[cam_wmh]

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[FlamesAddiction]

Something similar just happened here a few weeks ago. A friend of a co-worker of mine was killed near Belleville when another girl was driving the wrong way on the 401 early in the morning. Apparently she had been out at the bar that night and pulled an all nighter. The bar owner has been charged, or so I hear.