South Korean High School Exam

[burn_this_city]

Feel free to point out the ignorance of my post. In the context of their education system, is anything I said actually wrong? As an outsider I see Japan lite, make the same things, just cheaper.

I'd love to hear some reasons why this education system and the pressures it forces on teenagers would be superior to our own.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Oh the old' "we all look the same". Absolutely. We have a genetic predisposition to black hair and myopia. My buddy from China was on a bus the other day and a guy went up to him and asked "do you like rice?". Why is this kosher in Calgary? Would you goto a black guy and say they all look the same or ask if they like watermelons and fried chicken? Why all this "cultural superiority" bull#### that is just masked racism?

But I don't even mean it in a racist way. I just literally was blown away when I saw this picture, the similarities are uncanny. I was also reffering to the fact they're all wearing glasses, sitting the exact same way, etc.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Oh the old' "we all look the same". Absolutely. We have a genetic predisposition to black hair and myopia. My buddy from China was on a bus the other day and a guy went up to him and asked "do you like rice?". Why is this kosher in Calgary? Would you goto a black guy and say they all look the same or ask if they like watermelons and fried chicken? Why all this "cultural superiority" bull#### that is just masked racism? I don't believe Canada's culture is superior in anyway and I far prefer Asian industrial design and aesthetics. Our education system has it's strengths but it also certain has extreme weaknesses.

I suspect he would if he didn't know full well he would be beaten to a pulp within a few seconds of opening his mouth, never mistake fear for cultural enlightenment.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

But I don't even mean it in a racist way. I just literally was blown away when I saw this picture, the similarities are uncanny. I was also reffering to the fact they're all wearing glasses, sitting the exact same way, etc.

I'm not picking on you specifically I just think the cultural judgments in this thread are unwarranted. I think many things are to be admired in Asian educational systems. They aren't churning out robots that somehow lack individuality just because they are all trained rigourously and look the same because they have mostly the same genes and are sitting in a test taking posture which is what you would do when writing a test.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Feel free to point out the ignorance of my post. In the context of their education system, is anything I said actually wrong? As an outsider I see Japan lite, make the same things, just cheaper.

I'd love to hear some reasons why this education system and the pressures it forces on teenagers would be superior to our own.

I am Asian myself and to tell you the truth, if I were put through that wringer, I probably wouldn't make it. I was the Asian that hated doing math and ended up doing liberal arts and marketing in University.

Certainly, the pressure cooker of Asian educational systems causes many to burn out and fail...but it's also a form of conformism that encourages exceptionalism and teaches a very strong work ethic early on. I've considered working in Asia but I simply would not make it given the fact that I simply don't have the discipline to work as long and as hard as others would there.

I have friends that simply blow me away with how quickly they will a solve a math or engineering question, others who are tremendous successes in medicine, etc. and we agree that they aren't smarter than me, they just had a stronger foundation, know how to study hard and work hard without distraction, which is something instilled by educational learning, repetition, and cultural "fitting-in" as it were and they didn't need the ADD meds our system seems to love telling kids they need. My best years in school were all in a competitive environment where there was exceptional pressure to be the best. Whenever I lost that for a few grades or a few years in University, my grades suffered immensely. I've recently found that again and it's amazing stuff to be in that kind of environment and under that pressure.

As far as your post goes, I just found your judgment of Korean culture as nothing but a copycat one with no innovation very ignorant of reality. How do you define innovation? Korean technology companies dominate on the world stage. Korean cars are among the top sellers. Korean fashions and television, and the entertainment industry (even their plastic surgery looks awesome instead of the horror shows coming out of Hollywood) IMHO are far in advanced of that of much the western world (Europe is ahead of North America quite a bit as well). You are really judging an entire culture as being made of mindless drones by the fact that you don't think their cars are interesting or you think they are inferior?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I'm not picking on you specifically I just think the cultural judgments in this thread are unwarranted. I think many things are to be admired in Asian educational systems. They aren't churning out robots that somehow lack individuality just because they are all trained rigourously and look the same because they have mostly the same genes and are sitting in a test taking posture which is what you would do when writing a test.

Yeah, but I'm used to white canadian test taking posture, which ranges anywhere from sitting like those Koreans to sitting comfortably back against the chair, with one arm hanging over the back of the chair and staring aimlessly at the roof.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I am Asian myself and to tell you the truth, if I were put through that wringer, I probably wouldn't make it. I was the Asian that hated doing math and ended up doing liberal arts and marketing in University.

Certainly, the pressure cooker of Asian educational systems causes many to burn out and fail...but it's also a form of conformism that encourages exceptionalism and teaches a very strong work ethic early on. I've considered working in Asia but I simply would not make it given the fact that I simply don't have the discipline to work as long and as hard as others would there.

I have friends that simply blow me away with how quickly they will a solve a math or engineering question, others who are tremendous successes in medicine, etc. and we agree that they aren't smarter than me, they just had a stronger foundation, know how to study hard and work hard without distraction, which is something instilled by educational learning, repetition, and cultural "fitting-in" as it were and they didn't need the ADD meds our system seems to love telling kids they need. My best years in school were all in a competitive environment where there was exceptional pressure to be the best. Whenever I lost that for a few grades or a few years in University, my grades suffered immensely. I've recently found that again and it's amazing stuff to be in that kind of environment and under that pressure.

As far as your post goes, I just found your judgment of Korean culture as nothing but a copycat one with no innovation very ignorant of reality. How do you define innovation? Korean technology companies dominate on the world stage. Korean cars are among the top sellers. Korean fashions and television, and the entertainment industry (even their plastic surgery looks awesome instead of the horror shows coming out of Hollywood) IMHO are far in advanced of that of much the western world (Europe is ahead of North America quite a bit as well). You are really judging an entire culture as being made of mindless drones by the fact that you don't think their cars are interesting or you think they are inferior?

Yes, but is all that worth it if good kids are blowing their brains out at an alarming rate, due to the stress of that culture that turns out hard working individuals?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yeah, but I'm used to white canadian test taking posture, which ranges anywhere from sitting like those Koreans to sitting comfortably back against the chair, with one arm hanging over the back of the chair and staring aimlessly at the roof.

We're pretty lucky here. Here's the average test-taking posture in Sudan where you have to somehow use your knee as a desk. They also have similar... haircuts.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yes, but is all that worth it if good kids are blowing their brains out at an alarming rate, due to the stress of that culture that turns out hard working individuals?

I wonder how that compares to our rates of overdose's and drunk driving deaths and other general buffonery related accidents?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yes, but is all that worth it if good kids are blowing their brains out at an alarming rate, due to the stress of that culture that turns out hard working individuals?

I agree, that is a problem with very deep cultural issues that need to be addressed. It's what happens when you take traditional Asian culture and marry it to western values of modern success. Suicide rates of Japan are also quite high. I wouldn't say it is all due to the educational system but there is tremendous social and cultural pressure to "succeed" and the bar for that is definitely set a lot higher and more difficult to meet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331921

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I wonder how that compares to our rates of overdose's and drunk driving deaths and other general buffonery related accidents?

For all the media's coverage of how bad drinking and driving is (and I agree with it, because one death is too many) there's isn't actually that many young people killed by drinking and driving. It's just brought up as senseless and unneccesary everytime it happens, as they try and hammer home the point that it can't continue.

[jayswin]

lol, hammer home the point.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

For all the media's coverage of how bad drinking and driving is (and I agree with it, because one death is too many) there's isn't actually that many young people killed by drinking and driving. It's just brought up as senseless and unneccesary everytime it happens, as they try and hammer home the point that it can't continue.

Well those stats are only the ones that die in a car because of alcohol. Usually it's unintentional and just stemming from a momentary lapse in judgment. The vast majority just die or are in dire straits because of alcohol or other substance abuse over a long term which I'd argue is even worse.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Well those stats are only the ones that die in a car because of alcohol. Usually it's unintentional and just stemming from a momentary lapse in judgment. The vast majority just die or are in dire straits because of alcohol or other substance abuse over a long term which I'd argue is even worse.

Yes, that's a fair point.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The only newer then 2000 cars you see in the junk yard are Korean cars. They are getting better, but they still aren't great.

The only reason for that is a majority of people in Canada still buy Korean cars because they are the cheapest alternative and therefore, buy mostly budget models which of course, are more prone to end up the in the junk yard. If everybody only bought Sunfires, you'd think all American cars are crap because the junk yard is full of them. When's the last time you saw a Korean higher end or luxury model? You won't see many of those because those concepts still don't correlate to your average North American car buyer. It took Japanese cars a long time to get over that stigma even though they had very reliable high end models already in the 60s and 70s but it wasn't until the 80s and when they started introducing "luxury" brands in North America that attitudes began to change. There is no such thing as Acura or Infiniti or Lexus in Japan.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yes, but is all that worth it if good kids are blowing their brains out at an alarming rate, due to the stress of that culture that turns out hard working individuals?

On a "survival of the fittest" and totally dehumanized point of view, I would argue that it can be good for a country if their goal was to become an industrial and economic power. It basically breeds a culture of hardwork and discipline, and outs anyone who doesn't conform. The people who can't take the stress are basically cut, and only those that can hack it survive and rise to the top. Of course, you'll have a nation full of human robots, but that's a different argument.

[saskflames69]

Jesus H Christ in a dump truck I thought my physics final would be difficult.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

On a "survival of the fittest" and totally dehumanized point of view, I would argue that it can be good for a country if their goal was to become an industrial and economic power. It basically breeds a culture of hardwork and discipline, and outs anyone who doesn't conform. The people who can't take the stress are basically cut, and only those that can hack it survive and rise to the top. Of course, you'll have a nation full of human robots, but that's a different argument.

A lot of Asian countries put survival of the country ahead of the individual after wartime near-annihilation. Japan had to do it, South Korea had to survive against the threat of the North, etc. The quickest way to industrialization and modernization is something like this.

The only reason it still exists now however, is that it's become culturally ingrained and socioeconomic success at all costs (which naturally is assumed to derive from a good college) is such a pressure cooker for young people.

[Hack&Lube]

I wonder how these exams compare to our diploma exams and the SATs in the US. I've always thought about writing a practice SAT for fun and see how I do. I'd probably fail miserably after being years out of highschool.

[afc wimbledon]

Mind you exams in the UK and europe are fairly stiff, I took about 8 subjects at 16, each one had 2 three hour exams and a 1.5 hour multi choice as I recall so most days for 2 weeks I was doing 6 hours of exams, the difference was we could repeat so if you effed it up it wasn't the end. to get into Uni you had to stay on until 18 and study a further 2 or 3 subjects very intensly and then take again around 8 or 9 hours of tests on each.