Stronach crosses the floor

[CaptainCrunch]

All this talk about her serving her constituants makes me laugh, the only person she's serving herself.

The Liberal's may not have paid her off with cash, they paid her off with power and influence.

And lets not wax poetically about her doing this because of her opposition to her party platforms, or her concerns about the budget vote. She sold out period.

I find her to be a reprehensible human being. She sold out her core values long ago, in a quest for power, its been aparent from day one

The fact that she did it two days before the budget vote just speaks to what kind of a profiteer she is.

Its typical of the people in the party that she now represents.

I shudder to think that somebody of her character is in charge of any changes that would come from the Gomery inquiry, we know that she'll do exactly what her master tells her to do.

bah

[Hakan]

You'll need a good parachute for those rather large conclusions you're jumping to.

Fact of the matter is neither you or I have any idea why she did what she did. The only difference is that I'm going by what she said and you're going by pure speculation.

[Lurch]

This is a huge blow to the Conservatives. Budget vote aside, it does even greater damage in appearing to validate what many Ontarians think - that the big bad Conservatives are just too right wing. Devastating.

Dead on correct, IMO. Stronach is belatedly doing what myself and many others did when the old PC party folded up tent - jumping ship from the good ship Reform. The perception, real or imagined, is that the 'Red Tories' are a minority in the CPC party with no real say, and Stronach leaving reinforces that opinion - especially given her parting shots. Personally, it would not suprise me in the least if the more centrist members of the CPC jump ship, especially in Ontario and Atlantic Canada.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I like the move. But of course that's because I'm anti-Conservative and I see this as a big blow to both their chances of overthrowing the gov't and their chances of doing well at the next election. One of their higher profile moderates abandons the party. That's a big blow and could make their party look even further right than before. They could lose quite a bit of support from the less socially conservative Tory supporters.

Obviously Conservative supporters will tend to crucify her and be bitter about it. Makes sense.

Very interesting development.

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Hakan@May 17 2005, 11:14 AM
You'll need a good parachute for those rather large conclusions you're jumping to.

Fact of the matter is neither you or I have any idea why she did what she did. The only difference is that I'm going by what she said and you're going by pure speculation.

Bahhhhhhhh.

Get in line with the rest of the sheep. This government has been shown as corrupt. To 'jump' to any conclusion about power being used to buy out an MP isnt a stretch at all.

[RougeUnderoos]

Obviously you conservative-leaning types aren't very confident in the CPCs chances/comptency if you think she simply jumped ship to gain a Cabinet position.

2 days from now they are going to try to force an election which, if all went well, she would have scored a cabinet position for sure. I guess she figures they aren't going to win anything.

With all the blatant corruption and scandal, the CPCs still can't get it together? Sheesh.

[Bertuzzied]

I still can't see why changing parties is a bad thing. Klein jumped from the Liberals to the PC party when Getty gave him a power position and that turned out not so bad. Of course Klein can speak and doesn't sound like a Robot.

And wake up people this is politics!!!! The conservatives are just as corrupt as the liberals. You just didn't see it this past decade because they were an insignificant party. Mulroney had cabinent ministers resign almost once a year over scandals.

[Resolute 14]

I agree with Hakan. Lets look at what Stronach is saying and doing.

She says she disagrees with the Conservatives working with the Bloq. I wonder if she will vote against any bill or motion that the Bloq supports? Doutbful.

She says that Harper doesnt understand all regions of Canada. I'm curious if she can explain why the Liberals have all of two MPs in Alberta and Saskatchewan if she thinks Martin understands all regions of Canada?

She commented on how Canadians need a renewed confidence in government. Well, if you listen to the call in shows - and Rutherford has been more entertaining than usual today - the only thing Stronach has accomplished is to diminish trust in government, and increase calls for Alberta to put up firewalls or outright seperate.

She was given the mandate of rebuilding faith in democracy in Canada by Martin, which is laughable given that Stronach did not consult or even warn her consituency association before making the move, and she has now pushed aside the candidat that the Newmarket Liberal association DEMOCRATICALLY nominated as Liberal candidate for that riding.

She commented on how the Conservatives will embolden the seperatists, yet she seems to be ignorant of the fact that Liberal corruption is the direct cause of the seperatists greatest single chance at a successful yes vote.

She voted against the Liberals numerous times last week, yet now supports them. hmmm.

Seems pretty obvious here. Stronach is a hypocrite.

[browna]

Selfish. Plain and simple. Call a spade a spade. She knew the Conservative moral ideological structure regarding same sex marriage long before she pulled this stunt. Using weak excuses like minor issues in her own riding, was just a cover for the wooing that has probably been going on for a couple months, and a slap in the face to her consitiunents.

Coup for the Libs, maybe they had something on her or Magna.

As head of the HDRC maybe she'll drive down unemployment by putting everyone to work at Daddy's auto parts manufacturer. Or maybe they'll have her doing the new employee orientations of Parliment Hill.

With her speaking ability she's not going any further then where she's at now, until she becomes bored and retires in a couple years, so Martin need not worry about his position.

A smart move for the Libs, and a fairly transparently egotistical move on hers, exposing her for the sellout that she is.

Maybe Peter McKay can now release some of those pictures he's been taking behind closed doors...

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher@May 17 2005, 10:15 AM
I like the move. But of course that's because I'm anti-Conservative and I see this as a big blow to both their chances of overthrowing the gov't and their chances of doing well at the next election. One of their higher profile moderates abandons the party. That's a big blow and could make their party look even further right than before. They could lose quite a bit of support from the less socially conservative Tory supporters.

Obviously Conservative supporters will tend to crucify her and be bitter about it. Makes sense.

Very interesting development.

From an anti-conservative standpoint I can see why you like the move, but I'd suggest you shouldn't.

Here's why: we already have a country so politcally tuned-out and jaded that a party literally stole - and then covered it up - and by and large people don't care.

Stronach blatant political power-grab will only reinforce people's belief that politicians are all a bunch of crooks so what does it matter.

And as it stands people might be right, but it's a tragedy that we accept it.

As someone said, the Conservatives had their share of scandal under Mulroney. The difference is they were crucified at the next election. The liberals are going to be rewarded.

You may not care if it's the cons getting trounced, but think of something like proportional representation that you do care about. Ideas like that are being stomped on just as badly as the conservatives right now, just less visibly.

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by browna@May 17 2005, 12:21 PM
Maybe Peter McKay can now release some of those pictures he's been taking behind closed doors...

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by browna@May 17 2005, 11:21 AM
Coup for the Libs, maybe they had something on her or Magna.

Interesting angle.

I suppose we can all try to look shocked when Magna nets itself a special exemption from Kyoto measures, of finds itself bellied up to the trough next to bombardier and the like.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois@May 17 2005, 06:29 PM
As someone said, the Conservatives had their share of scandal under Mulroney. The difference is they were crucified at the next election. The liberals are going to be rewarded.

I don't think the PC's got crucified for the scandals. Everyone knows politics is shady. I think they got crucified because they implemented the GST. hehe

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied+May 17 2005, 11:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bertuzzied @ May 17 2005, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bend it like Bourgeois@May 17 2005, 06:29 PM
As someone said, the Conservatives had their share of scandal under Mulroney. The difference is they were crucified at the next election. The liberals are going to be rewarded.

I don't think the PC's got crucified for the scandals. Everyone knows politics is shady. I think they got crucified because they implemented the GST. hehe [/b][/quote]
Hadn't thought of that, but you're probably right.

So we've been nincumpoops for a couple decades then. Sheesh. I need that little revelation like I need a hole in the head.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois+May 17 2005, 11:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bend it like Bourgeois @ May 17 2005, 11:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-browna@May 17 2005, 11:21 AM
Coup for the Libs, maybe they had something on her or Magna.

Interesting angle.

I suppose we can all try to look shocked when Magna nets itself a special exemption from Kyoto measures, of finds itself bellied up to the trough next to bombardier and the like. [/b][/quote]
We can only hope Martin is that stupid. But it is one of the things I have thought of as well. If I am the Conservatives, I am paying very close attention to Manga International.

[Thunderball]

From a Conservative point of view, this is disgusting for the second or third in line in leadership just jumps ship cause she's unhappy... its politics... you bide your time, and when your turn comes, which it would have, you can mold the party into your own image. Defections are all fine and dandy, but for the heir apparent to do so is just shocking. Better to serve in heaven than rule in hell is her opinion. Personally, I see her doing serious harm to both Western and Quebecois Discontent. Typical Ontarian Businesswoman sidles up to the crooked Liberals, gets a posh Cabinet job, and quite possibly a sweet deal for Magna, a company threatened by Kyoto... her actual goal? perhaps...

Now looking at it from an unbiased point of view (I'm gonna really try here, so don't flame me)... this is great for the Liberals... people love Belinda. But, how long will the love-in last? This may very well convince Cadman and Kilgour to vote down the budget, since they may feel the Conservatives in her riding are not being listened to, or some other reason along those lines. Western Discontent is gonna be adversely affected... how long before moderates like Dinning start talking firewall after repeated assaults on Western leaders and ideologies? Quebec too... they are taking a stand against the Liberals by voting for their nationalist party, and they are the ones called traitors... yikes. I see Belinda blending into the Liberals, and losing any hopes of leadership. But like I said, maybe her only goal of politics was to protect the company from Kyoto?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+May 17 2005, 12:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ May 17 2005, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Interesting angle.

I suppose we can all try to look shocked when Magna nets itself a special exemption from Kyoto measures, of finds itself bellied up to the trough next to bombardier and the like.

We can only hope Martin is that stupid. But it is one of the things I have thought of as well. If I am the Conservatives, I am paying very close attention to Manga International. [/b][/quote]
Oh please. Somebody call Scully and Mulder.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois@May 17 2005, 06:29 PM
Here's why: we already have a country so politcally tuned-out and jaded that a party literally stole - and then covered it up - and by and large people don't care.

I disagree. I think people really care about the scandal. But that doesn't mean someone will change their votes to a party that has opposite beliefs to their own. It seems like some Conservative supporters believe the Liberals should automatically be voted out. That would be fine if there was an alternative party that could appeal as widely. But there isn't. NDP is a niche party, BLOC is a niche party and the Conservatives are a niche party.

I think you have to point the finger straight at the Conservative party if the Liberals are voted back in. Why? Because their platform is a niche platform, a minority platform. If they seriously wanted to be in power they should have dropped some of their unpopular socially conservative policies and ran on issues that the majority of Canadians could get behind and support.

IMO people really care about the scandal. IMO the majority would love to punish them and vote them out. However if there is no better alternative then you can't fault them for not doing so. And I don't.

As you know full well I think our current electoral system is part of the problem. First past the post not only keeps the Liberals as strong as they are but it concentrates their power in the most populous region of the country. They are overrepresented in Ontario because of our electoral system and underrepresented in most other places. NDP should be more powerful than it is.

IMO if people are unhappy about corruption then they should be looking for electoral reform. It makes it easier to punish the big parties for misbehaving. I hope we concentrate on that instead of talking about western separation.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher@May 17 2005, 12:12 PM
It seems like some Conservative supporters believe the Liberals should automatically be voted out.

LOL, nice understatement.

[Hakan]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@May 17 2005, 12:11 PM
Oh please. Somebody call Scully and Mulder.

Quoted for humour.