Mainland China has got some issues

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't forget that Chinese youth have grown up in the Golden Shield/Great Chinese Firewall generation. They don't know anything about the Cultural Revolution or Tibet or Tiananmen Square or anything!

They just know that they can make more money now then was ever possible.

Oh noes! You mentioned the forbidden words in the thread, now it will be blocked for JohnnyB in Shanghai.

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

There's definitely a growing battle in the psyche of many Chinese right now between the practical and the valued. Loads of Chinese people do feel genuinely upset about a lot of the unethical choices they need to make, but continue to make them as they feel there is no choice. The expansion of social media (hindered though it may be) is giving those conflicted ethical positions more and more voice though.

Really its one a many cases where the government isn't serving the people. Unfortunately in China, change doesn't happen unless the government becomes sufficiently embarrassed over an incident. Hopefully the media will pick this up and things will change a bit.

Originally Posted by pylon

I have been elbow deep in the blood of strangers twice in my life as a first responder. You do not do that for a reward, you do that because it is the right thing to do as a human.

Would you be a first responder if you could be sued or imprisoned for saving a life? Totally agree with what you said earlier about protection and good Samaritan laws. Needs to be implemented so at least people who try to help don't get punished for it.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Would you be a first responder if you could be sued or imprisoned for saving a life? Totally agree with what you said earlier about protection and good Samaritan laws. Needs to be implemented so at least people who try to help don't get punished for it.

Yes. I would. I could not live with it on my conscious that someone may have died as a result of my lack of action, regardless of any persecution.

And I am not even religious... pretty weird eh?

I would likely go the way of this Pulitzer prize winning photographer that turned a blind eye if I didn't help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carter

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by pylon

I have been elbow deep in the blood of strangers twice in my life as a first responder. You do not do that for a reward, you do that because it is the right thing to do as a human.

I agree with what you're saying. At the same time I think what Girly is saying bears a lot of truth. There are just so many people struggling in China and so much need that you can't possibly help everyone. People learn to take care of themselves and family first with fear of losing everything they are struggling to get too.

For some added context on that article you posted too, it is worth noting that while the mother paid 20,000 rmb and was being chased for another 35,000 a decent salary in even most middle cities of China is around 2,000 per month and many don't make that. The fear of losing that much while also struggling just to even keep up with inflation on necessities could be a powerful disincentive.

[mikey_the_redneck]

I remember taking first aid a few years back and the instructor told us we had to ask the victim/injured person if you can help them, and if they couldn't answer the question not to help them for legal reasons.

I was like wtf??

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by pylon

I have been elbow deep in the blood of strangers twice in my life as a first responder. You do not do that for a reward, you do that because it is the right thing to do as a human.

Yup definitely. But that's an attitude lacking in today's China. Not sure the exact reason. I think this is what we're all debating right now.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I remember taking first aid a few years back and the instructor told us we had to ask the victim/injured person if you can help them, and if they couldn't answer the question not to help them for legal reasons.

I was like wtf??

I do not know where you went, but that completely goes against the mantra of life over limb.

If someone is knocked unconscious in a burning vehicle, are you supposed to let them burn to death? I would have walked straight out of that course if I heard that.

[afc wimbledon]

I don't find this that suprising, for whatever reason the chinese seem to totally insular, their world seems to start and end in their home, and that is here in East Van and has nothing to do with the currant economy in china.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by pylon

Yes. I would. I could not live with it on my conscious that someone may have died as a result of my lack of action, regardless of any persecution.

And I am not even religious... pretty weird eh?

I would likely go the way of this Pulitzer prize winning photographer that turned a blind eye if I didn't help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carter

Very admirable attitude indeed. Definitely not as prevalent in China these days given the stuff like you mentioned in your previous article.

And you would still do it if the person you saved could go after your family? While you and I personally might not have a problem doing the right thing, do you have the right to decide that for your family as well? Unfortunately they do have to make this decision in China and given the importance of family in Chinese culture, its not all that surprising that some will decide not to help.

Like the article showed, the person that got helped went after compensation from the mother of the good Samaritan. Very disappointing.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I agree with what you're saying. At the same time I think what Girly is saying bears a lot of truth. There are just so many people struggling in China and so much need that you can't possibly help everyone. People learn to take care of themselves and family first with fear of losing everything they are struggling to get too.

For some added context on that article you posted too, it is worth noting that while the mother paid 20,000 rmb and was being chased for another 35,000 a decent salary in even most middle cities of China is around 2,000 per month and many don't make that. The fear of losing that much while also struggling just to even keep up with inflation on necessities could be a powerful disincentive.

I am not blind to all these facts. We live in a different world where insurance, and a public health care system protects you against these issues.

I was not born and raised in China, so I cannot pretend to say what I would and wouldn't do if my life was completely different from day 1. I can only say what I would do, knowing who how I was raised, and what beliefs were instilled in me.

What does scare me though, is with the growing rate of immigration, would one of those people that walked past that dying child, walk past a dying Canadian? Are we going to start seeing the same indifference in our country, and people protected by the "It is a cultural difference, we let our citizens bleed to death in agony, and it is a hate crime to punish me for it." Knowing our government, I could see it happening.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not blind to all these facts. We live in a different world where insurance, and a public health care system protects you against these issues.

I was not born and raised in China, so I cannot pretend to say what I would and wouldn't do if my life was completely different from day 1. I can only say what I would do, knowing who how I was raised, and what beliefs were instilled in me.

What does scare me though, is with the growing rate of immigration, would one of those people that walked past that dying child, walk past a dying Canadian? Are we going to start seeing the same indifference in our country, and people protected by the "It is a cultural difference, we let our citizens bleed to death in agony, and it is a hate crime to punish me for it." Knowing our government, I could see it happening.

This is where education comes in. I hope that these values are being taught in school and the news reports good sammaritan stories. Not just the Canadian news, but the ethnic news in Canada as well.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Oh noes! You mentioned the forbidden words in the thread, now it will be blocked for JohnnyB in Shanghai.

oops I think Johhny's still around... if not we'll have to go back and edit this out!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

That's the long term effect of communism on morality right there.....

Those people are dead inside.

I suppose you have the data to back up that statement?

I don't disagree that governments, and particularly paranoid/brutal dictatorships affect the moral of the people, but not every communist or former communist society is indifferent to human suffering. Heck, not every capitalist society cares about human suffering. There is so much more to the picture than a country's economic system when it comes to desensitization. Some of the kindest and most generous people I know were those that grew up under communism.

For the record, I don't care for communism one bit, I just find your statement naively ignorant.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I remember taking first aid a few years back and the instructor told us we had to ask the victim/injured person if you can help them, and if they couldn't answer the question not to help them for legal reasons.

I was like wtf??

Originally Posted by pylon

I do not know where you went, but that completely goes against the mantra of life over limb.

If someone is knocked unconscious in a burning vehicle, are you supposed to let them burn to death? I would have walked straight out of that course if I heard that.

Was it in the US? You can get sued there if you try and help a victim of an accident or whatever. Something to do with a lack of expertise and having to wait for people with proper training to administer medical treatment.

I believe the idea is that if the person has a broken neck, the person trying to play hero will have second thoughts about moving them when they need professional help.

Then again you could probably get sued for doing nothing, like in the terrible, terrible series finale of Seinfeld.

[simonsays]

This situation obviously outrages me and I would like to do whatever I can to help. So what should I change my facebook status to?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Was it in the US? You can get sued there if you try and help a victim of an accident or whatever. Something to do with a lack of expertise and having to wait for people with proper training to administer medical treatment.

I believe the idea is that if the person has a broken neck, the person trying to play hero will have second thoughts about moving them when they need professional help.

Then again you could probably get sued for doing nothing, like in the terrible, terrible series finale of Seinfeld.

My first aid training was here in Alberta about ten years ago. The nurse described the potential legal ramifications etc. if you don't ask the victim for permission to move or treat them.

[chemgear]

Yeah, the video is pretty darn brutal. But I'm not sure about globally extrapolating a video to 1.5ish billion people though.

Heck, you could point to the many Vancouver riot videos or the Edmonton murder numbers and claim all of Canada must be f'd up in the head. A bunch of torch wielding murders, all of 'em.

I do wonder about the comparative effects of the government versus western cultures though.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

My first aid training was here in Alberta about ten years ago. The nurse described the potential legal ramifications etc. if you don't ask the victim for permission to move or treat them.

Probably want to take that training again then, we have good samaritan indemnification in Canada, you cannot be sued if you act in good faith, in fact you can be charged criminally if you do nothing in some cases.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by T@T

They call it a "brutal car accident"

Sorry idiots, at that speed and the fact the first car ran over her slowly with both wheels and the second car didn't even try to avoid her I call it attempted manslaughter.

Makes no wonder westerners call orientals the worst/blindest drivers on earth...how the f.ck this could happen is beyond me..just ridiculous.

Lol, orientals. What are we, back in the sixties?

I do agree there is a problem with Chinese attitudes though. It is the indirect result of the cultural revolution. It also contributes to the unethical business practice that we keep hearing about coming out of China. People have been poor for so long, they've now swung the extreme the other way, where people who make money make a lot of money at the expense of ethics. It's so freaking materialistic in China, frankly, it makes me sick to hear. I think only time will gradually be able to solve this though who knows how long it will take.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

My first aid training was here in Alberta about ten years ago. The nurse described the potential legal ramifications etc. if you don't ask the victim for permission to move or treat them.

I think you misheard. Yes you are supposed to ask for consent and identify yourself as a first aider if they are awake, if they say no and you try to help they can sue you. If they are unconsious you still have to ask them and identify yourself as a first aider, and you are given "implied consent" and you are free to help. Pending that you try and help the person within your best abilities you cannot be sued.

[jar_e]

A lot of the whole "legal" aspect falls under various "Good Samaritan" acts which are controlled by each province in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law