Vancouver loses top spot on world's most livable cities list

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by valo403

Please find me a city of over 1 million people that doesn't have a ghetto like neighborhood in it. Every city, regardless of how amazing, has bad areas.

Edmonton.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by RedJester

Although I agree that Calgary needs to stop it's sprawl outwards, it's not really a trend that is easily fixed or reversed. Calgary is one of the most family-centric cities in Canada, and those families want to live in big houses with garages and big back yards.

I'm not saying it's practical, but that's just the reality of living here.

Plus, developers aren't going to start building condos and multi-storied housing projects halfway out to Okotoks. They're left to pick and choose areas in the already developed parts of the city, and those are pretty hard to come by.

Compare that to Vancouver where the closer you get to downtown, the denser the housing gets. It's night and day.

Reversed, well of course not, but it could be easily halted through the use of zoning and taxation. I'd like to see Calgary make a point of spending on things that make living closer to the core desirable, you don't necesarily need to make things worse for those in the suburbs if you can shift the demand to more central locations. The city spends a lot of money to serve such a massive footprint, a condensed population can be served in a more cost effective manner in many respects, it's really a win-win and it seems the city is at least starting down that road.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Edmonton.

That's just Edmonton being one big ghetto though
Aren't the North End/Millwoods and Forest Heights bad?

[MoneyGuy]

Edmonton's pop is roughly 800,000+.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Then we should have a property tax system where it increases the further away you are away from the core.

So, you want to tax people more because they opted to live in an area where they could actually afford to buy a house in an effort to convince people to buy houses in a more expensive part of town?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Reaper

So, you want to tax people more because they opted to live in an area where they could actually afford to buy a house in an effort to convince people to buy houses in a more expensive part of town?

Yes. The difference in property tax will not be the same difference in the house price. If you want to live far away, pay for it.

I want a toll for people who live in Airdrie, Okotoks and Cochrane but work in Calgary too.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I've been here for over 30 years. It has but it's still not enough. not when we are going to hit cochrane, airdrie and okotoks in about 10 years. Completely ridiculous.

It seems every few years people throw out the "we'll hit the bedroom communities in 10 years at this rate." With the annexation of land in 2011 Calgary has enough land to account for growth until 2045, IIRC.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by valo403

Please find me a city of over 1 million people that doesn't have a ghetto like neighborhood in it. Every city, regardless of how amazing, has bad areas.

East Hastings is a little more than a ghetto like neighbourhood or bad area. It's the worst slum in Canada, and possibly in North America.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Yes. The difference in property tax will not be the same difference in the house price. If you want to live far away, pay for it.

I want a toll for people who live in Airdrie, Okotoks and Cochrane but work in Calgary too.

Nevermind, I forgot that you're insane.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Nevermind, I forgot that you're insane.

that. or i'm just bitter they haven't rezoned my neighborhood to R2 or R4 zoning yet. hehe

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

East Hastings is a little more than a ghetto like neighbourhood or bad area. It's the worst slum in Canada, and possibly in North America.

Pet Peeve here. East Hastings is probably 10 km long, maybe more. The "slum" as you call it is probably a 6-7 block stretch. Tops. Not to mention, some of it stretches on to West Hastings. Call it downtown east side, not East Hastings. E Hastings covers more area in North Burnaby than it does East Van, and North Burnaby is a very nice place to live. Get your facts straight.

Worst in North america?? hahaha, laughable. Watching The Wire(dubbed one of the most realistic shows on television) told me that there's probably dozens of American cities that have way worse areas than Vancouver's Downtown East Side.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

East Hastings is a little more than a ghetto like neighbourhood or bad area. It's the worst slum in Canada, and possibly in North America.

Hyperbole much?

[FlamesAddiction]

The slummy areas around East Hastings are actually not that bad from a personal safety point of view. I'd actually be more afraid of thugs walking around Maple Ridge or Surrey than Hastings.

Also, one of the main reasons there are so many bums in Vancouver is because the winter climate is mild and attracts them from other cities. The fact there are so many, I think adds to the argument that the city is very "livable", even for street people.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I think this is purely a livability survey and they tried to take opinion out of this survey as much as possible and measure things by objective factors like: stability, healthcare, culture, environment, education and infrastructure. So that might be things like water quality, air quality, safety, #riots, traffic congestion, etc.

NYC and Tokyo would get rated to hell on those metrics given the population density and it's probably why they aren't high on the list.

That's great. I also made it explicitly clear that everyone has different preferences. Such as, I prefer New York and Tokyo for my own reasons over a place like Helsinki or like Perth.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The slummy areas around East Hastings are actually not that bad from a personal safety point of view. I'd actually be more afraid of thugs walking around Maple Ridge or Surrey than Hastings.

Also, one of the main reasons there are so many bums in Vancouver is because the winter climate is mild and attracts them from other cities. The fact there are so many, I think adds to the argument that the city is very "livable", even for street people.

http://documentaryheaven.com/streets-of-plenty/

pretty good doc on how "livable" Vancouver is if you start with nothing.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Nevermind, I forgot that you're insane.

How is that insane? Commuters who live in those bedroom communities use City of Calgary infrastructure daily but don't pay a cent to fund it. A toll road for out-of-towners who commute into the city would ensure they pay their share for the infrastructure they use.

As for Bertuzzied's other point, he's absolutely right that people in the low-density suburbs should be taxed at a comparatively higher rate than people living in the higher-density inner city. Right now, residents living near the core subsidize the suburbs; instead, the people who choose to live in the burbs should pay the appropriate amount of tax dollars for the services they use.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by valo403

Hyperbole much?

Not at all....

This neighborhood is the most concentrated drug and poverty ghetto in North America, with high use of heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine, according to criminologist Benedikt Fischer of Simon Fraser University.

Due in part to rampant intravenous drug use, the area's HIV rate is the worst in the developed world, said International AIDS Society president Dr. Julio Montaner. The HIV rate qualifies the Downtown Eastside for World Health Organization epidemic status, he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35160185...ious-skid-row/

[VANFLAMESFAN]

^^Okay, let's compare crime and murder rates from the downtown east side to the ghettos of fine American cities like Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Cleveland etc....


Yeah, there's a disgusting drug problem going on down there, but it's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It's not a slum. It's a pretty bad area, but if I walk down there right now, I'm making it out alive and with my wallet in my pocket and will run into no problems.

Point being is that i would feel a lot safer walking thru the Downtown east side than I would down the streets of plenty of American cities.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

How is that insane? Commuters who live in those bedroom communities use City of Calgary infrastructure daily but don't pay a cent to fund it. A toll road for out-of-towners who commute into the city would ensure they pay their share for the infrastructure they use.

As for Bertuzzied's other point, he's absolutely right that people in the low-density suburbs should be taxed at a comparatively higher rate than people living in the higher-density inner city. Right now, residents living near the core subsidize the suburbs; instead, the people who choose to live in the burbs should pay the appropriate amount of tax dollars for the services they use.

I'm guessing he lives in Airdrie. hehe

Now we just need a politician with enough balls to implement that. As much as I'm a Nenshi fan i don't think he will do it.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Pet Peeve here. East Hastings is probably 10 km long, maybe more. The "slum" as you call it is probably a 6-7 block stretch. Tops. Not to mention, some of it stretches on to West Hastings. Call it downtown east side, not East Hastings. E Hastings covers more area in North Burnaby than it does East Van, and North Burnaby is a very nice place to live. Get your facts straight.

I wasn't the first one to refer to Hastings in this thread and I used it to keep the point of reference the same. So lose the righteous attitude since it doesn't suit someone like you.

Worst in North america?? hahaha, laughable. Watching The Wire(dubbed one of the most realistic shows on television) told me that there's probably dozens of American cities that have way worse areas than Vancouver's Downtown East Side.

Can you back that up with anything other than fictional tv shows?