Being impregnated during a rape is just like getting a flat tire

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The people of Kansas don't want to be forced by their insurance companies to pay for the killing of unborn children. That is more than reasonable. They are not preventing insurance carriers from offering coverage but, simply don't want it part of general coverage wherein they would be in part paying for it.

So they'd rather pay for foster care, health care, education, and/or prison costs for these unwanted children?

These people of Kansas you talk about sure seem smart.

How come Liberals always demand rights which are no rights and then expect others to pay for them?

What are you talking about? How does this situation involve rights at all?

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

He accused someone of contributing to the deaths of children when he is on record as not believing that person exists. That would be as rational as me blaming Santa Claus for children being too greedy at Christmas.

I don't see a problem with either statement (provided actual stats backed either up). Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean someone else isn't affected by it. Likewise, just because Thor doesn't believe in God, doesn't mean Americans aren't influenced by (what he believes is just the concept that is) God.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The goal isn't to punish the mother. It is to give her every opportunity to reconsider what she is about to do to her own body and the life of her unborn child.

Would this be another example of the right wanting smaller goverment and wishing it would just leave people alone?

[Yasa]

If I was a women that became pregnant via rape, I'd definitely want to keep the child. The life-time reminder of being raped is well worth the joy of parenthood. Not to mention the day that the child questions the whereabouts of their father.

"Mom, where's dad?"

"Forcibly giving you half-brothers and sisters if not already beaten to death."

"Yay! Family!"

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You don't believe in God yet you slander Him. Not very rational.

Actually I'm pointing out the fact those who believe in him also have to account for the truth that naturally without human intervention and ingenuity fetuses and babies are aborted all the time, so if you believe in god you have to square this with your belief. Its his mysterous plan I'm sure.

The infant mortality rate in the States would be much higher if they included aborted children in that number and of course the vast majority of them are preventable.

Rates of abortions in the US aren't far off all other western nations, which don't account abortions in their infant mortality rates, and naturally occurring miscarriages. So this is a pointless thing to say.

What you and other conservative Jesus followers need to ask yourselves why you fight so hard to keep poor people suffering, those without health care continuing to suffer and all the while propping up rich people. Not very Jesus like is it.

Planned Parenthood promotes abortion and also uses their mostly government funded organization as a political tool. They should lose all government funding.

Again, the misinformation you get must be staggering. They help women with contraception, STD's, planning parenthood (weird name for them), and in very minor cases abortions (3%, not 93% which is not meant to be factual ). They help women, and the vast majority of their work has nothing to do with abortions, its education, and resources. But of course since they don't just preach abstinence and do a very limited number of abortions you have to throw all of their excellent work out the window right?

If by more difficult you mean pay for it yourself(not making me pay for this killing) then you are right. If by more difficult you mean the mother would find more difficulty in killing her unborn if she could see him/her on an ultrasound than yah your right. What niether of those laws do is prevent a women from chosing to abort her child.

I'm perfectly fine with no government funding of abortions. Neat how conservatives want government out of our lives and intruding on our freedoms. The suggestion the first lady wanting our kids to eat healthier was met by outrage on the right calling it intrusive of our freedoms. How then do you square forcing pregnant mothers to watch a video, have an ultrasound, be yelled at, called names... (some of that was a joke.)

No one is forcing these mothers to watching a video. No one is forcing these women to go out of State to get their abortions.

Not yet, attempts are being made, and more and more clinics close because of the difficulty in running them. We all know what happens when one opens up, protests, death threats, and sometimes killings/bombings.

The second law requires an ultrasound be preformed and provided to the mother before the procedure is done. Nobody can deny that many women abort a child in a moment of crisis and live to regret it later. Helping her make a more informed decision is not a bad thing. If she really is bothered by a fuzzy picture of her unborn child than maybe abortion isn't the right chose for her.

The doctor is there for that, and thats enough. You shouldn't mandate or legislate anything to force the woman to do anything, where is your outrage on this form of big brother government? Oh thats right only when its a democratic policy will you be upset.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

You don't believe in God yet you slander Him. Not very rational.

The infant mortality rate in the States would be much higher if they included aborted children in that number and of course the vast majority of them are preventable.

Planned Parenthood promotes abortion and also uses their mostly government funded organization as a political tool. They should lose all government funding.



If by more difficult you mean pay for it yourself(not making me pay for this killing) then you are right. If by more difficult you mean the mother would find more difficulty in killing her unborn if she could see him/her on an ultrasound than yah your right. What niether of those laws do is prevent a women from chosing to abort her child.



No one is forcing these mothers to watching a video. No one is forcing these women to go out of State to get their abortions.

The first law stops those people(probably a majority) in Kansas who sees abortion as taking a life from having to fund it.

The second law requires an ultrasound be preformed and provided to the mother before the procedure is done. Nobody can deny that many women abort a child in a moment of crisis and live to regret it later. Helping her make a more informed decision is not a bad thing. If she really is bothered by a fuzzy picture of her unborn child than maybe abortion isn't the right chose for her.

If you would like to create a check list for everybody and we can they tick off what we don't like out tax dollars to go to I am all for that.

Missles kill people can I opt out of that?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

So they'd rather pay for foster care, health care, education, and/or prison costs for these unwanted children?

These people of Kansas you talk about sure seem smart.

Heck you don't know the half of it. They also take care of the handicapped and elderly even though niether of those groups will contribute much to society. I'm sure in your "smart" society you would get rid of all those leaches as well.

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

What are you talking about? How does this situation involve rights at all?

You seem to think a women should have a right to an abortion and that right includes her expecting those who oppose unborn children being killed to help bare the costs of said abortions.

All Kansas' law does is prevent abortion insurance being part of a general insurance plan. It can be added as a rider or as a separate policy. It can be covered by your company if your company wants to bare the cost.

[Coys1882]

So when a fetus is aborted - it's soul obviously goes to heaven right? I mean how can a fetus sin right? So when it gets there - is it in fetus form? Because when I picture heaven, I'm surrounded by friends and family, playing for Tottenham in the summer and the Flames in the winter because that's what I've come to dream of as a person. What does an unborn fetus do in heaven?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

They also take care of the handicapped and elderly even though niether of those groups will contribute much to society.

Wow! And I thought you couldn't be more ignorant. I shouldn't be surprised after your comments about Stephen Hawking though.

You seem to think a women should have a right to an abortion and that right includes her expecting those who oppose unborn children being killed to help bare the costs of said abortions.

Don't tell me what I seem to think. You're not mentally equipped to be able to do that.

Roe v Wade pretty clearly determined the abortion issue in the US when it comes to rights.

All Kansas' law does is prevent abortion insurance being part of a general insurance plan. It can be added as a rider or as a separate policy. It can be covered by your company if your company wants to bare the cost.

How does insurance become a right?

And why, in an alleged free market like the US, does the government have to dictate what a private company can and cannot offer to its customers?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

If you would like to create a check list for everybody and we can they tick off what we don't like out tax dollars to go to I am all for that.

Missles kill people can I opt out of that?

I don't think the government should fund any charity that is political in nature. It is like funding a lobbyist group. I know Planned Parenthood does more than engage in politics but, it is a large part of what they do.

I thought you took care of that war problem by electing that Nobel Peace prize winning President. If not yet I'm sure a couple more speeches and Obama will have all of America's enemies laying down their arms and coming together to make a better world.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

So when a fetus is aborted - it's soul obviously goes to heaven right? I mean how can a fetus sin right? So when it gets there - is it in fetus form?

The Catholic Church proposed the concept of Limbo to deal with this question, but it is no longer considered part of the official Vatican-sanctioned church doctrine. Meanwhile, Church theologians are still attempting to define precisely how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The Limbo of Infants (Latin limbus infantium or limbus puerorum) is a hypothesis about the permanent status of the unbaptized who die in infancy, too young to have committed personal sins, but not having been freed from original sin. Since at least the time of Augustine, theologians, considering baptism to be necessary for the salvation of those to whom it can be administered, have debated the fate of unbaptized innocents, and the theory of the Limbo of Infants is one of the hypotheses that have been formulated as a proposed solution. Some who hold this theory regard the Limbo of Infants as a state of maximum natural happiness, others as one of "mildest punishment" consisting at least of privation of the beatific vision and of any hope of obtaining it. This theory, in any of its forms, has never been dogmatically defined by the Church, but it is permissible to hold it. Recent Catholic theological speculation tends to stress the hope that these infants may attain heaven instead of the supposed state of Limbo.

While the Catholic Church has a defined doctrine on original sin, it has none on the eternal fate of unbaptized infants, leaving theologians free to propose different theories, which Catholics are free to accept or reject.[8]

The fundamental importance, in Roman Catholic theology, of the sacrament of water baptism gives rise to the argument that, because original sin excludes from the beatific vision enjoyed by the souls in heaven, those who have not been freed from it either by the sacrament or by baptism of desire or baptism of blood are not eligible for entry into heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

So they'd rather pay for foster care, health care, education, and/or prison costs for these unwanted children?

Just reminded of something from Carlin's 'Back in Town' show.

"Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. Pro-life, these people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors, what kind of pro-life is that? What, they'll do everything they can do save a fetus, but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it?"

Like it or hate it, he posed a pretty interested point.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Thor

God is the greatest abortionist of all time, before modern medicine infant mortality rates were hilariously high, even now the US has one of the worst rates in the western world, yet all the right in America can do is fight against healthcare that would save those precious babies and fight against planned parenthood who's interest is in helping women and education to avoid needing abortions in the first place.

Its the attempts to make it more and more difficult for women to have their legal right to an abortion, and the right knows trying to tackle roe v wade is not the way to go so they do all kinds of other shady ways to curb women's rights and make it more difficult for them to get abortions.

I'm all for helping women avoid going that route, but to force them into some video watching and such nonsense is ######ed. They should have the right, speak to their doctor and be left alone. Not heckled or threatened or forced to go to another state just to get a medical service they are legally entitled to.

Don't distort the facts. As someone who lives in Texas I'm happy that Texas has passed this law which requires that the doctor must show the woman the ultrasound. If she still chooses to go through with it fine, but at least she is making a properly informed decision.

Part of this law is used to address a problem that I've heard about since living in Texas, which is that some women would request to see the ultrasound prior to the abortion and the Doctors denied the patients request.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I don't think the government should fund any charity that is political in nature. It is like funding a lobbyist group. I know Planned Parenthood does more than engage in politics but, it is a large part of what they do.

I thought you took care of that war problem by electing that Nobel Peace prize winning President. If not yet I'm sure a couple more speeches and Obama will have all of America's enemies laying down their arms and coming together to make a better world.

I'm sorry did you answer my question?

I don't like to pay for missles killing people can I opt out? I don't know what Obama has to do with this.

When did Planned parenthood become political in nature like funding a lobbying group.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

So when a fetus is aborted - it's soul obviously goes to heaven right? I mean how can a fetus sin right? So when it gets there - is it in fetus form? Because when I picture heaven, I'm surrounded by friends and family, playing for Tottenham in the summer and the Flames in the winter because that's what I've come to dream of as a person. What does an unborn fetus do in heaven?

Edit: Answered Elsewhere

PS - Tottenham is for weiners.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Don't distort the facts. As someone who lives in Texas I'm happy that Texas has passed this law which requires that the doctor must show the woman the ultrasound. If she still chooses to go through with it fine, but at least she is making a properly informed decision.

Part of this law is used to address a problem that I've heard about since living in Texas, which is that some women would request to see the ultrasound prior to the abortion and the Doctors denied the patients request.

Being denied the request for an ultrasound is not ok, being forced to have one is ridiculous. The only people supporting that idea are anti abortionists.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Thor

Being denied the request for an ultrasound is not ok, being forced to have one is ridiculous. The only people supporting that idea are anti abortionists.

My understanding is that in Texas ultrasounds were already required prior to performing the abortion. The only difference in the legislation really is having the woman see the ultrasound. I'm sorry but I don't understand why this is such a bad thing, it only contributes to making a properly informed decision.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

My understanding is that in Texas ultrasounds were already required prior to performing the abortion. The only difference in the legislation really is having the woman see the ultrasound. I'm sorry but I don't understand why this is such a bad thing, it only contributes to making a properly informed decision.

How?

[photon]

They should show videos of the symptoms of diabetes before buying a slurpee, otherwise no insurance coverage.

And videos of people falling down stairs before you can use stairs, otherwise no insurance coverage.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

My understanding is that in Texas ultrasounds were already required prior to performing the abortion. The only difference in the legislation really is having the woman see the ultrasound. I'm sorry but I don't understand why this is such a bad thing, it only contributes to making a properly informed decision.