Shire Investments - Anyone an investor in their Calgary real estate?

[Cowperson]

[QUOTE=macker;3299246]

Originally Posted by jtfrogger

Whenever I saw the guy on Breakfast Television, he seemed reasonably knowledgeable. That said, it was only on really simple topics such as, "Yes, you should pay off credit card debt before investing" or the basics of how an RRSP works. I never looked into his business.

Reminds me of this : http://www.ripoffreport.com/tv-adver...ge-t-824cx.htm

Ironically Denis Waitley wrote the book on "The Psychology of Winning"
and is a best selling author. These people can be incredibly deceptive and Canada has done little to change the way white collar crime is handled. Usually they change industries and start "selling" again.


"When the tide goes out you learn who has been swimming naked" Warren Buffett.

In the ASC ruling regarding this thread, all of the individuals and companies involved were described as operating their business outside of the normal securities regulatory environment.

So, it isn't rocket science . . . . . if you choose, of your own free will, to give your money to these kinds of wankers then you're on your own and shouldn't be surprised when you're left holding a bag of air.

Killed by your own greed.

Dealing with licenced advisory representatives and firms with oversight by IIROC and other regulatory agencies doesn't necessarily mean you won't get hosed but the odds are considerably lessened and secondly, there is likely recourse to damages if you are found to be in the right on the facts.

Slava makes the great mistake of saying these guys give everyone "in our industry" a bad name when in fact, these guys are operating on a completely separate planet and have virtually no comparison to him/her.

How should Slava market himself? Seminars, advertising, media appearances, volunteer work . . . . etc, etc. Why not? Those other guys have nothing to do with him/her. If you can't explain the difference between yourself and an unlicenced, unregulated shyster then you need to find firmer ground to stand on.

Regarding QR77, they're taking more care these days to make sure broadcasts of this type described have disclaimers, separating the opinions expressed as not those of the station.

I just shake my head when I see someone wanting to give their money to these kinds of outfits.

"Where's the escape hatch in an emergency and secondly, who's watching them?" are the questions I ask. Usually the answers are "none" and nobody." There's clue number one and number two.

Run away.

Cowperson

[Slava]

[QUOTE=Cowperson;3299513]

Originally Posted by macker

In the ASC ruling regarding this thread, all of the individuals and companies involved were described as operating their business outside of the normal securities regulatory environment.

So, it isn't rocket science . . . . . if you choose, of your own free will, to give your money to these kinds of wankers then you're on your own and shouldn't be surprised when you're left holding a bag of air.

Killed by your own greed.

Dealing with licenced advisory representatives and firms with oversight by IIROC and other regulatory agencies doesn't necessarily mean you won't get hosed but the odds are considerably lessened and secondly, there is likely recourse to damages if you are found to be in the right on the facts.

Slava makes the great mistake of saying these guys give everyone "in our industry" a bad name when in fact, these guys are operating on a completely separate planet and have virtually no comparison to him/her.

How should Slava market himself? Seminars, advertising, media appearances, volunteer work . . . . etc, etc. Why not? Those other guys have nothing to do with him/her. If you can't explain the difference between yourself and an unlicenced, unregulated shyster then you need to find firmer ground to stand on.

Regarding QR77, they're taking more care these days to make sure broadcasts of this type described have disclaimers, separating the opinions expressed as not those of the station.

I just shake my head when I see someone wanting to give their money to these kinds of outfits.

"Where's the escape hatch in an emergency and secondly, who's watching them?" are the questions I ask. Usually the answers are "none" and nobody." There's clue number one and number two.

Run away.

Cowperson

Ya, I understand that there is a huge difference between what I do (as a licensed advisor with all of the supporting documents, etc) and what outifts like this are doing. That being said though my point is that the general public doesn't always see that distinction. Thats where my frustration is.

My question about marketing isn't really about how to separate the wheat from the chaff so much either, my practice runs basically on referrals and people who know me from my involvement in various activities in the community and that sort of thing. I'm not all that concerned about keeping myself busy as a result.

I just know that they get a ton of exposure on TV/Radio with these flashy products and plans, meanwhile the legitimate advisors are left with the plain jane, tried and true strategies.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Hesla

What about Foundation Capital ? Anyone with experience with them ?

I invested a bit in them back in 2007. Still haven't seen a cent of return yet, nor have I really been updated on anything. They were supposed to be building in the Calgary - Airdrie corridor. It seemed like a sound investment at the time (pre economic downturn), but now it seems like all they do is keep sending me new offers to invest in other projects. I'm getting a worried that my money might be gone, but who knows. I guess worst case scenario, I chalk it up to a life lesson learned.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I invested a bit in them back in 2007. Still haven't seen a cent of return yet, nor have I really been updated on anything. They were supposed to be building in the Calgary - Airdrie corridor. It seemed like a sound investment at the time (pre economic downturn), but now it seems like all they do is keep sending me new offers to invest in other projects. I'm getting a worried that my money might be gone, but who knows. I guess worst case scenario, I chalk it up to a life lesson learned.

I am unfamiliar with them. Is it feasible to say "hey, it's been a while now I'd like to cash out" or were you locked in for a certain time frame?" Worse chasing down perhaps?

[macker]

[QUOTE=Cowperson;3299513]

Originally Posted by macker

In the ASC ruling regarding this thread, all of the individuals and companies involved were described as operating their business outside of the normal securities regulatory environment.

So, it isn't rocket science . . . . . if you choose, of your own free will, to give your money to these kinds of wankers then you're on your own and shouldn't be surprised when you're left holding a bag of air.

Killed by your own greed.

Dealing with licenced advisory representatives and firms with oversight by IIROC and other regulatory agencies doesn't necessarily mean you won't get hosed but the odds are considerably lessened and secondly, there is likely recourse to damages if you are found to be in the right on the facts.

Slava makes the great mistake of saying these guys give everyone "in our industry" a bad name when in fact, these guys are operating on a completely separate planet and have virtually no comparison to him/her.

How should Slava market himself? Seminars, advertising, media appearances, volunteer work . . . . etc, etc. Why not? Those other guys have nothing to do with him/her. If you can't explain the difference between yourself and an unlicenced, unregulated shyster then you need to find firmer ground to stand on.

Regarding QR77, they're taking more care these days to make sure broadcasts of this type described have disclaimers, separating the opinions expressed as not those of the station.

I just shake my head when I see someone wanting to give their money to these kinds of outfits.

"Where's the escape hatch in an emergency and secondly, who's watching them?" are the questions I ask. Usually the answers are "none" and nobody." There's clue number one and number two.

Run away.

Cowperson

Who is ultimately going to prevent this from happening again? Individual investor, ASC, QR77, Rogers media etc.etc. There are many regulation gaps that need to be filled and until such time as things are properly addresssed I would be very cautious of any of these experts on the infomercials. The best advisors don't need to use such tactics and expand from referral marketing.
He was giving individual securities advice and recommendations with a life insurance license /thread

[Slava]

[QUOTE=macker;3299737]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Who is ultimately going to prevent this from happening again? Individual investor, ASC, QR77, Rogers media etc.etc. There are many regulation gaps that need to be filled and until such time as things are properly addresssed I would be very cautious of any of these experts on the infomercials. The best advisors don't need to use such tactics and expand from referral marketing.
He was giving individual securities advice and recommendations with a life insurance license /thread

I think that you hit the nail right on the head with that. I know that a lot of advisors were aware of that fact and I'm aware of some confrontations that allegedly took place as a result (not by me or any one on the board here). I remember seeing him on the news as the markets melted down in 2008 and thinking that eventually this would catch up to him. It was really frustrating to watch as it does erode public confidence in the profession.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Wow. no jail time and only penalties. Take note American swindlers, better do all your ponzi schemes and get rich schemes up here in Canada.

Pathetic.

It's a shame there's no jail time for these criminals. At least there won't be for this batch. Parliament is due to introduce a new bill to protect victims of white collar crimes. Mandatory jail sentences of a minimum of 2 years for fraud over $1million.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/Annual..._6/page-1.html

[Knut]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I invested a bit in them back in 2007. Still haven't seen a cent of return yet, nor have I really been updated on anything. They were supposed to be building in the Calgary - Airdrie corridor. It seemed like a sound investment at the time (pre economic downturn), but now it seems like all they do is keep sending me new offers to invest in other projects. I'm getting a worried that my money might be gone, but who knows. I guess worst case scenario, I chalk it up to a life lesson learned.

I personally know one of the guys who is director, and we keep getting cold-called to invest. In the past I was almost going to sink $10,000 starting into it, but something struck me as fishy. Glad i did not invest.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

It's a shame there's no jail time for these criminals. At least there won't be for this batch. Parliament is due to introduce a new bill to protect victims of white collar crimes. Mandatory jail sentences of a minimum of 2 years for fraud over $1million.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/Annual..._6/page-1.html

2 years is still a joke!

[ThisYear]

Trying to change the tide a bit, the best case I’ve heard is such a scenario is when my parents invested (back in the day) the developer took off with the money however he ended leaving the land behind. By the time it all got sorted out between lawyers, my parents 5x their investment because of the land value. Something to hope for.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by ThisYear

Trying to change the tide a bit, the best case I’ve heard is such a scenario is when my parents invested (back in the day) the developer took off with the money however he ended leaving the land behind. By the time it all got sorted out between lawyers, my parents 5x their investment because of the land value. Something to hope for.

that will never happen with Concrete though. They over pay for the land and building.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Is there any responsibility that these media outlets have to ensure that products of a financial nature being advertised on their station are actually legitimate?

Or is it pretty much, you can pay for the ad/airtime it's all yours?

I do not think there is any restrictions as long as they have their little Caveat emptor statement at the beginning and end. However it does make their On Air talent look pathetic taking part in it, and putting on the charade they are genuinely interested with all of their "Ooooh's and Ahhhh's".

I have personally found the best of the best of money managers out there are the ones that don't advertise. The one that essentially set my folks up for life was hesitant even taking me on 15 years ago, and only did it as a favour to my mom, because I didn't have enough at that time to put in to make it worth her while.

The best advertisement an investment advisor has, is their reputation. Once they start running "Lets play pretend radio call in show." Something in my eyes is flawed, where they have to go out and try and buy leads in that manner. If your product was so bullet proof, AWESOME, and made so much money, you wouldn't need to spend a nickel to find an investor, let alone buy entire 30 minute blocks of time on the radio. You would just have to put it out to a few brokers, and the rest would take care of itself.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by macker

So is Walton International the last one standing out of these local land bankers? Beiramar, Shire, Concrete, Wealthstreet etc. etc. Walton is the only one that comes to mind that has been around for the last ten years or so that is still doing what they do and you don't hear horror stories about. Or are there some?

I read (all 100+ pages) of one of their offerings about a year ago. The big print and the sales pitch talked about how great the returns were on their last few investment offers.

What was hidden in the middle in the fine print was that the terms aren't the same. On the new investment offers, they keep way more of the upside, and they sold the land into the investment vehicle at a big markup. So they're taking a big cut on both ends that they weren't before, which means the old results aren't comparable.

They're probably not running a scam/ponzi, but they're not operating nearly as good an investment opportunity as they used to be. I passed.

[photon]

I got an update from our legal counsel on this, apparently the hearings with Cleone Couch and the ASC are done and we should hear something shortly.

If they find that she violated the securities act then we have to wait to hear how much the fines will be against her. Larger fines of course mean lower chance that I'll get anything out of it.

Once that's done, the ASC's stuff is public record so we can then decide to pursue a lawsuit or not. But the likelihood that we'd be able to collect anything even if there was a judgment is probably zero.

Mostly because the money is gone, the speculation of what was done was that they would get investors and raise $1 million (not a real amount, just for arguments sake), spend $600,000 on an actual property, then spend $400,000 on advertising for the next round of investors.. raise $1 million, spend $500,000 on an actual property, and spend $500,000 on the previous property's expenses and the next property's advertising, etc etc.

I think that's called mixing, when the $ is supposed to be kept separate.. so while what was advertised for a property was $1 million raised, $500,000 for acquisition and $500,000 for development and sale costs and stuff, that wasn't actually happening, the money was being shuffled around to other things, other properties, expenses, etc.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by photon

Mostly because the money is gone, the speculation of what was done was that they would get investors and raise $1 million (not a real amount, just for arguments sake), spend $600,000 on an actual property, then spend $400,000 on advertising for the next round of investors.. raise $1 million, spend $500,000 on an actual property, and spend $500,000 on the previous property's expenses and the next property's advertising, etc etc.

If that's the case, you still should have something left, like $500K out of every $1 million sort of speak. I've been reading the accountant reports about Shire but I couldn't figure out why there's no a whole lot left. It's not like Cleon paid herself big bonus or salary.

[photon]

I think there's nothing left because the money from one went to pay the advertising for the next one.. they spent a LOT on advertising.

I agree that it's not like she paid herself a huge amount, and there doesn't seem to be any indication of money disappearing to an offshore account, I think they basically just spent it all.

[chemgear]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...162/story.html

The ASC found that Couch and the two companies made numerous misrepresentations in offering memorandums for the funds, noting that $20.9 million deposited into the Bearspaw bank account came from investors, and that $7.6 million that was then improperly transferred to a Shire account is “unaccounted for.”

[burn_this_city]

David Jones was fined $1.5M for his Wealthstreet racket.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...128/story.html

[Bill Bumface]

Is it enough to break the guy, or is he still loaded from pillaging all these people?

[Slava]

I heard he had to declare bankruptcy, but that was a rumour and could be wrong.