Mobile Rates Going Up Due to 2 Year Plan Changes

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Nexus 4 has been $300 since launch and unlocked, and is still one of the fastest phones on the market.

Google has said their next Nexus phone will be priced the same with newer hardware.

Explain why an S4 (slower than a Nexus 4) has double the price point of a Nexus 4.

Wait what? Unless you mean how the S4 is held back with Touchwiz versus clean Android, the Snapdragon 600 > Snapdragon S4 Pro by a bit.

Also, Google (and Amazon) are the only ones who can afford to break even/take a loss because of the profits they make instead from the services side. Samsung and Sony can't afford to do that because of how immature their offerings are.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Wait what? Unless you mean how the S4 is held back with Touchwiz versus clean Android, the Snapdragon 600 > Snapdragon S4 Pro by a bit.

Also, Google (and Amazon) are the only ones who can afford to break even/take a loss because of the profits they make instead from the services side. Samsung and Sony can't afford to do that because of how immature their offerings are.

Bloatware aside (which definitely slows down the S4), the S4 Pro does better in browser tests, even though the 600 barely nudges it out in CPU benchmarks. Realworld performance of the two chips is almost identical, and the 600 dies a little inside because of all the bloat.

Essentially, you pay $300 bucks for a 1080p screen.

Most engineers estimate it costs a company $150-$200 to make a smartphone, so a $600 price point can be brought down, there's just no need with the subscription tie ins.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Bloatware aside (which definitely slows down the S4), the S4 Pro does better in browser tests, even though the 600 barely nudges it out in CPU benchmarks. Realworld performance of the two chips is almost identical, and the 600 dies a little inside because of all the bloat.

Essentially, you pay $300 bucks for a 1080p screen.

Most engineers estimate it costs a company $150-$200 to make a smartphone, so $600 is absolutely ludicrous.

With the slight win on the browser end, were the tests not done between a 1080p (S600) and 720p (S4 Pro)? Though it at this point I see what you mean by the N4 being faster.

If the rumors about the MotoX sticking with an updated 1080p screen, at that price point, I can't complain.

$150-$200 only takes into consideration the parts cost. R& D and manufacturing alone would take up a fair chunk of the additional costs. Since I don't have any solid numbers of what that entails, I also think smartphones are able to drop more in price though I don't think it's quite 'ludicrous' right now.

[cam_wmh]

nyar

[PsYcNeT]

Yeah I revised the ludicrous comment, it was a bit hyperbolic.

AFAIK, Browsermark doesn't take screen size into account, it should be unaffected by the resolution for the tests it runs. OpenGL tests and the like would definitely be affected however, but both phones (in NA) run an Adreno 320.

[QuadCityImages]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Are Verizon's prices cheaper?

No! Yes! Kinda... but regardless, they'll be in an entirely different position if they enter Canada.

In the US, they are not at all known for good prices (unless, like me, you have grandfathered unlimited data) but people accept their higher prices because their voice/data coverage has always been leaps and bounds ahead of every other US carrier. They've basically finished their 4G LTE rollout, which now covers 300M people. A couple summers ago we were driving along out in the middle of nowhere Wyoming and I checked my phone and I not only had service, but I had 3G service. I can pretty much guarantee none of the other carriers would have had any service whatsoever. The weird thing on that was that I could see basically to the horizon in every direction and couldn't really see a cell tower, but whatever.

So in Canada, unless they don't even start selling their service until they've spent the $10B someone mentioned, they won't have that same hook that allows them to charge more (and screw their customers at every turn) like they do in the US. They'll have to compete on price, unless they can manage to sell future hopes and dreams of coverage maps.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ken0042

You should have a look at pricing overseas:
http://dx.com/c/cell-phone-599/cell-...e&sortType=asc

There are some pretty decent phones in that $200 price range; unlocked and ready to use on any carrier.

I would be curious to see what Telus pays Apple for iPhones. I'm guessing it's nowhere near the $700 retail price.

Pretty much irrelevant with Apple.

Apple controls the costs of their products. On-Contract, Off-Contract it doesn't matter with Apple. They tell you what you will charge.

[photon]

http://blog.telus.com/public-policy/...ics-mythology/

Telus responds to Canadian pricing.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by QuadCityImages

No! Yes! Kinda... but regardless, they'll be in an entirely different position if they enter Canada.

In the US, they are not at all known for good prices (unless, like me, you have grandfathered unlimited data) but people accept their higher prices because their voice/data coverage has always been leaps and bounds ahead of every other US carrier. They've basically finished their 4G LTE rollout, which now covers 300M people. A couple summers ago we were driving along out in the middle of nowhere Wyoming and I checked my phone and I not only had service, but I had 3G service. I can pretty much guarantee none of the other carriers would have had any service whatsoever. The weird thing on that was that I could see basically to the horizon in every direction and couldn't really see a cell tower, but whatever.

So in Canada, unless they don't even start selling their service until they've spent the $10B someone mentioned, they won't have that same hook that allows them to charge more (and screw their customers at every turn) like they do in the US. They'll have to compete on price, unless they can manage to sell future hopes and dreams of coverage maps.

See, the Canadian big 3 have greater LTE penetration than Verizon.
(the $10bn was me, and I pulled it out of my @ss haha)

In terms of US Telco's, it actually makes more sense for AT&T to come over. Their service speeds/quality would remain the same LOL

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

See, the Canadian big 3 have greater LTE penetration than Verizon.
(the $10bn was me, and I pulled it out of my @ss haha)

In terms of US Telco's, it actually makes more sense for AT&T to come over. Their service speeds/quality would remain the same LOL

What do you mean by penetration? People with lte devices? If so, I'd be surprised. You have a source on that?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

What do you mean by penetration? People with lte devices? If so, I'd be surprised. You have a source on that?

footprint

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

And if it was a competitive market with full information, laissez faire may work.

But it isn't - it is an oligopoly with large economies of scale, large barriers to entry and getting information is difficult.

I doubt even Verizon changes things much. They will initially create a price war to build up their client base and prices will drop across the board. But once their client base starts to be sustainable they will raise prices and the others will follow suit.

It takes more than 3 or 4 entrants for it to be a competitive market place that drives down prices.

It is pretty well known that regulations prevent foreign companies from properly investing in the lucrative Canadian Wireless market.

Change those laws to allow easier investment, and the prices will fall eventually.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by photon

http://blog.telus.com/public-policy/...ics-mythology/

Telus responds to Canadian pricing.

The hypocrisy when they started using the geography card was delicious.
Well, not delicious.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Koodo goes live with their new tab system and plans.
http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/07/15/ko...-medium-large/

The new tab system for Koodo is probably the only small bright spot in this.

All their plans are significantly more expensive for less though. I was about to switch from rogers with my own unlocked phone, and I'm looking at around $20 bucks more for a similar plan.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

footprint

Verizon's lte coverage is pretty solid, with every slightly urban place, and all interstate areas covered. Pretty hard to find a spot without Verizon lte these days.

I don't really know what Verizon would have to offer though, except for brand recognition. I would be ecstatic though if it meant I could have my home network in Canada. Free data and voice roaming to US could be a significant marketing tool in Canada too I guess.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't really know what Verizon would have to offer though, except for brand recognition. I would be ecstatic though if it meant I could have my home network in Canada. Free data and voice roaming to US could be a significant marketing tool in Canada too I guess.

From a Canadian perspective, the brand would be nearly irrelevant. We just need a deep pocketed company to come in to get the "big 3" looking over their shoulders. But the biggest obstacle is the regulatory environment. Wind Mobile is a large, international brand and even they were unable to extensively penetrate the Canadian market, and the company has even expressed regret at even entering Canada because of the regulatory situation.

But you're quite right - a cross-border company that could offer trans-North American coverage with no roaming fees would help in that area. While it is encouraging to see companies like Roam Mobility providing a cost effective alternative for Canadians who travel to the US, it is still a hassle to have to jump through hoops to avoid gouging.

[Kipper is King]

I called Telus this morning and was told that there is no date limit on my 6GB data add on. So I could grandfather that into a new voice plan on MTM if I wished. That's a relief. I'm both intrigued and frightened by how plans are going to change, and I'm starting to think that buying a device outright may be a great option.

[SuperMatt18]

Big issue is the cost to get a full network up and running. Need a huge footprint for small populations in Canada, not an easy investment to make in a penetrated market.

Small Wind/Mobilicity type of networks have not been successful even with cheap prices.

Can't remember which article it was but it was estimated that it would cost $2b to build out a full network that is equivalent to Bell/Telus/Rogers in Canada.

Companies like Verizon have 99 million subscribers in the U.S. The entire population in Canada is 34 million and Verizon would have to build a similar size network to that of the U.S. in order to service them all.

I don't see the appetite for new entrants now in this market place, it is already too much penetration in Canadian market. 5-10 years ago before the Canadian Mobility sector took off is when the Canadian government needed to be pursuing more foreign investment.

Koodo launched their changes today: http://koodomobile.com/en/ab/index.shtml

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Big issue is the cost to get a full network up and running. Need a huge footprint for small populations in Canada, not a great investment to make.

Small Wind/Mobilicity type of networks have not been successful even with cheap prices.

Can't remember which article it was but it was estimated that it would cost $2b to build out a full network that is equivalent to Bell/Telus/Rogers in Canada.

Companies like Verizon have 99 million subscribers in the U.S. The entire population in Canada is 34 million and Verizon would have to build a similar size network to that of the U.S. in order to service them all.

I don't see the appetite for new entrants now in this market place, it is already too much penetration in Canadian market. 5-10 years ago before the Canadian Mobility sector took off is when the Canadian government needed to be pursuing more foreign investment.

Koodo launched their changes today: http://koodomobile.com/en/ab/index.shtml

If you look at the amount of area that is actually populated in Canada, I'd say it is probably (eye balling) more like about 1/3 or 1/4 the amount of coverage you'd need in the US.

http://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Coverage_map

http://mobility.telus.com/en/AB/cana...NTCMP=coverage

Alberta seems to be the only province that is completely covered with cell towers.

Also, LTE coverage does not look as expansive as Verizon's US LTE coverage.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/wcms/...er/4g-lte.html

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

I'm starting to think that buying a device outright may be a great option.

That's what I'll be doing. You can get a Nexus 4 through the Play store right now for $359 outright for a 16GB version. No more contracts for this kid once this contract is done.