2021 Off season: You're in charge, what would you do?

[flames_fan_down_under]

I am in charge...

Step 1: Immediately move on from Don Maloney and Brad Treliving.

Step 2: Complete a total overhaul of entire Flames structure. Assistant GMs, pro scouting staff, amateur scouting staff, NHL coaching staff, trainers, physios, goalie coaches, equipment manager, skate sharpener, ice maker. Everyone gone. Gut the entire organization. Whatever remnants of the '04 run, Gelinas, Conroy, etc, nice guys, thanks for your time, gone. This organization needs a complete reset in every single area. The culture of mediocrity and complacency has seeped into every facet of this organization and it needs to be rooted out.

Lindholm, Mangiapane and Dube are three pieces to hold onto. Tanev as well and will be the captain of the team.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Backlund, Rasmus Anderson and Giordano all dealt for young roster players and draft picks. The culture of losing, complacency, and fragility is embedded in these players DNA. Maybe they learn how to win again with another team, but they will never know how to win as a Flame.

Acquire as many draft picks as possible over the following years.

Build a state of the art training facility. Invest in every aspect of development. The second you are drafted as a Flame you are thrust into a system that supports all the various needs of a hockey player at the highest possible level. You will feel proud to be a Flame, to be welcomed to a hockey club that will do everything to see you succeed. Nutritious meal planning, top physical training, elite skills training, elite mental health work, coaches giving players all the information they need to succeed in every aspect of their profession. Establish a culture of excellence, winning, hard work, and honest communication where the goal is to create excellent humans, players and championship teams.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Extend or trade Johnny is priority #1, we can't afford to lose him for nothing.

Trade Monahan, though the return will be weak.
Trade Tkachuk if the offers are right.
Should have traded Gio to a contender this year, probably just missed his best Trade value opportunity.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Sure, but the following year I bet Tanev would pull more in a trade than Gio would next year. All things being even on term, Tanev brings more value in my opinion.

Tanev wouldn't be on expiring deal until the TDL of 2024.
So the question you have to ask is what level will he be playing at - by that time?
And you also have to weigh the probability that Seattle takes him if exposed (probably high but not a sure thing).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It would be nice, but I expect virtually every first-rounder dealt for those drafts will be lottery protected.

The only advantage is that if you are acquiring 2022 picks the protection is likely deferral to 2023 - which is also a good draft at the top end.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He's been terrific no doubt. Probably the Flames' MVP for this season.
But he still has a 4.5M hit for the next 3 years with no guarantee that he doesn't suffer some sort of fall off particularly given how he plays.

But my basic premise is that, if Gio plays as well as he had for the last stretch next season, that he would be a premium trade chip next TDL for a franchise that needs those badly.

I just think protecting Tanev over Gio isn't a slam dunk if you look at it from an asset POV.

But that isnt some exorbitant amount for what he provides.

And if things arent going well next season, at the deadline isnt Tanev a bigger trading chip than a month of Giordano?

So the asset thing is really not in play.

I think it much wiser to leave Gio unprotected, and if Gio doesn't want to move his family to the US for 1 year ( a real probability) and would rather retire, let Francis know that via his agent. Then you keep your defense in order pretty much, allow both Valimaki and/or Mackey to get another year of mentorship and experience in the league, and still have both guys to deal at the deadline.

I think exposing Tanev 1 year after you sign him and after the way he has played is not going to sit well with future UFAs either. And Im not sure thats how this organization wants to be perceived either.

Is the "drop off" a worry? I guess it is a bit. But he is only 30 years old and has the equivalent of 7 seasons on his chassis. He certainly showed no signs of it this year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by transplant99

But that isnt some exorbitant amount for what he provides.

And if things arent going well next season, at the deadline isnt Tanev a bigger trading chip than a month of Giordano?
.

Not with term left he isn't. Not in my view.
Term on 30+ players is going to become a big factor in the post COVID NHL with lower caps and questionable revenue growth.

The very thing that makes Gio valuable is the expiring contract.

[FanIn80]

In terms of top 6, I'm back on my stance that we need RWs more than anything else.

Move Tkachuk. Move or expose Backlund. Get top-six RW back, or something else that we can use to get RWs with. A young NHL RW talent would be nice, but cap space, prospects and draft picks can also be used to get us there too.

Centers are hard to find. Goal-scoring centers even moreso. Sutter has Monahan becoming more of a center than he has been in the past, which is the kinda stuff that can be taught. Faceoffs, defensive play, killing penalties. He's starting to do and get better at all this stuff. He has goal-scoring ability, which is something that can't be taught. Give Sutter more time with him. Our RWs are garbage. Monny is a better center than anyone else in our organization is at RW. In other words, our top two centers might combine for about 80% of what we need from those two spots... but our top two RWs are 0% of what we need from their two spots. Fix what is most broken first.

Gaudreau Lindholm <Actual RW>
Mangiapane Monahan <Actual RW>

Much easier to promote or sign a couple of bottom six centers than it is to find a top six one. Keep Monahan. Backlund gone. Ryan gone. Tkachuck gone. We. Need. Top six. RWs.

[The Cobra]

Let's assume Johnny says he'll stay on an 8 year deal.

What's the most yearly salary you would give him?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Not with term left he isn't. Not in my view.
Term on 30+ players is going to become a big factor in the post COVID NHL with lower caps and questionable revenue growth.

The very thing that makes Gio valuable is the expiring contract.

I think guys that can play are more valuable than guys that cant.

4.5 for 2 more years after next might be a barrier for some teams for sure...but you can always take back or retain too. Retaining in particular shouldnt be an issue here by that point because if thats whats happening as far as trading goes...its rebuild time anyhow.

I dont know...losing Tanev for nothing has to be a bigger loss than anything positive coming from a Giordano deadline deal even if their ia a 1st rd pick coming back. Its a 1st sure but it wont be coming from anyone that isnt solidly into a PO spot which means the pick will be somewhere in the late 20's most likely.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Let's assume Johnny says he'll stay on an 8 year deal.

What's the most yearly salary you would give him?

Johnny Gaudreau has not earned an 8-year contract at the kind of money he'll be looking for. The most I would offer him for an 8-year deal is a plane ticket to another team.

(And I really like Johnny)

[Macho0978]

For me the rest of this season should be about playing some young players. Phillips, Ruzicka, Mackey at minimum should be in the lineup every game.

Draft lottery is next. I doubt winning it would change what I would do but why I find listing 5 or 6 things I would do is tough is I believe the results of your first 1 or 2 moves can change your opinion of the rest of your decisions.

If we win the draft lottery I still don't believe we have a strong enough prospect pool. It is much better for sure but still not a lock to be a top 10 organization when it comes to prospects. IMO that means at minimum I believe this needs to be a focus for at least 1 more draft after this draft. The 2023 draft seems to be loaded. How do you build through the draft for 2021 and 2022 and then plan to be a contender the season you could snag a superstar in the 2023 draft? It will be hard to pass it up as there seems to be more than 1 superstar in that draft. If the plans involve trading Johnny or Tkachuk then it seems smart to keep it going and commit to it for the next 2 drafts after this year.

I'd love to see Johnny, Tkachuk, Monahan, Backlund, Gio all moved but I'm not sure I would do that all in 1 summer. I also think contracts matter too and if Tkachuk is willing to sign long enough that he will be apart of the plan to contend starting 2023/24 season then maybe I keep him. But I just don't see him being a $9mil player or more and I doubt anyone in this flat cap signs for 8 years. So I think eventually I would move him. I think my order of trades would be as follows

1. Johnny on draft day - I doubt he signs long enough to fit in my plans and I can't see myself committing 6 or more years to a 29 year old Johnny. I just don't see him aging well in this league and I expect him to be ineffective in his mid to early 30's. I would love to move him for a short term bad contract and higher end prospects or picks.

2. Backlund - I think we brings just as much as Monahan does in a deal but his age is more of a concern. I'm ok with a young RFA that projects to be a 3rd or 2nd line player but hasn't got a big role with his current team so far.

3. Tkachuk - depends on contract and if he resigned for a deal I like for long enough maybe I keep him. But my guess is that won't happen. But I'm ok to wait until the deadline next year to move him


4. Gio - trade deadline next year and return is straight picks

5. Monahan - I'm ok to keep him until the deadline of his contract year. We need to have players to play during a rebuild and he isn't good enough to ruin our draft position. I would move him and keep Backlund if the return on Monahan is much better

Resign our players for longer term and more money now. Dube and Valimaki this off season to the Nashville Preds type contracts. If they won't commit I would give them 1 year deals and try again next summer. I would give Mangiapane 6 years next summer as well.

Markstrom and Tanev could move too but I wouldn't panic to move them out the next 2 years. If the returns we get on other players are good enough and they want to stay I would be ok to keep them for leadership and some stability.

I'd keep Lindholm as all cup contending teams have key players in their prime. I don't believe you can win with all players in the 18-25 age range. I also believe that this team will be turning the corner before he becomes a free agent and he might resign. Because of that I make him the captain.

[Vinny01]

It is surprising to see some say they keep Johnny over Tkachuk. The fact a section of fans have completely turned on Tkachuk is a little surprising. I think it is pretty idiotic to sell this low on him but if there is a trade request that is made in private it should certainly be granted without it getting ugly/public like it did with Bennett.

If Tkachuk is committed to the team long term then he is a must keep piece in my opinion and still the future captain.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Let's assume Johnny says he'll stay on an 8 year deal.

What's the most yearly salary you would give him?

What are small, non-physical PP specialists worth?

He just doesnt provide a whole lot past being a really talented offensive guy when he has time and space...which he finds when its 5 on 4.

What kind of money does that kind of player deserve in the NHL?

I really have no idea.

[Inferno]

The first thing I would do with input from Sutter is figure out which players just aren't going going to fit in and look at moving them. And by moving them out I don't mean for picks and prospects unless I'm getting someone equal/better who fits in better in free agency or through another trade.

As much as some people on here want a full rebuild it's not going to happen after bringing in Markstrom and Sutter. It doesn't have to happen either. It's one bad short season.

If he's one of the players that does fit in I would sit down with Johnny and tell him to give his true intentions once his contract is done. If he says he's considering going back East you move him. If he says he's committed to staying you start negotiating an extension.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What are small, non-physical PP specialists worth?

He just doesnt provide a whole lot past being a really talented offensive guy when he has time and space...which he finds when its 5 on 4.

What kind of money does that kind of player deserve in the NHL?

I really have no idea.

You have no idea because your comment about being a powerplay specialist is debatable. So Johnny does not create scoring chances at all at even strength. Does your analysis take into consideration that he has played the entire season with a PTO level player on his RW?

Johnny has proven that he is not a franchise player and is not a guy that will carry a team or a terrible line to be elite. If Johnny went to a team like the Avs where he is the third best forward I see things going a lot differently for him and he would be scoring points at an elite rate.

I have absolute zero doubt that Johnny will get a deal that gives him a raise over 7-8 years when he signs a new deal and I think it is almost certainly elsewhere

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It would be nice, but I expect virtually every first-rounder dealt for those drafts will be lottery protected.

Very possibly. I guess that's where volume of picks comes in and see if it gives you the flexibility to move up, though it will be a tough.

Though, say, with a top 5 pick yourself and added draft capital, it's plausible with the right trade partner.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

- Move Johnny for the best return you can get
- Monahan is tricky. Is his decline due to an injury and therefore can be corrected? If so you are trading him at his lowest. If the decline is just organic, then look to move him too
- Float Tkachuk out there to see what you can get for him. He is the most valuable asset still this organization has - so it only makes sense to trade him if the value is there
- Protect Backlund and Gio in the draft. The latter will have high value next TDL on an expiring contract (perhaps as much as a 1st).

I agree with everything but the last one. If the Flames expose Tanev that would be a good thing to me as it means they would be looking to tank but I don't believe that's going to be the case. If this team went into next season with a top 4 of Anderson, Hanifin, Gio, and Valimaki we would be looking at another top 10 draft pick in 2022 and while that's what I would like, the reality is that the organization will be looking to make the playoffs. I also think you are overvaluing what a 38 year old Giordano will be worth at the deadline next season as I think they would be lucky to fetch a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him at most.

[Savvy27]

1. Trade Tkachuk + for Eichel. The + might have to include Mangiapane or Dube and a draft pick and that would suck, but elite talent makes fans forget about middle six players pretty quickly.

2. Keep Monahan. If you can tade him for good value, like another player who needs a change then consider it, but I think he will have his most value at the TDL with an expiring contract and hopefully he can bounce back next season a bit.

3. Sign Jamie Oleksiak.

4. Expose Giordano. I'm not convinced Seattle would take him. He may have high value at the TDL so they may just for that reason, but I have doubts that Francis would take a guy with a family who has spent his whole career in one city, just to trade later.

5. Re-sign Ryan. He is a useful player and the only issue most have with him is salary, which was inflated as his one big ticket UFA contract. Offer him a deal under $2M.

6. Give Ruszicka and Pelletier a shot.

7. Re-sign Rittich to a back-up level contract. He might not want to come back given how little he played behind Markstrom, but if he decides the grass was pretty green in Calgary, he may be an option.

Gaudreau Eichel Lindholm
Mang/Dube Monahan Pelletier
Lucic Backlund Leivo
Ruszicka Ryan Ritchie

Giordano Tanev
Hanifin Andersson
Oleksiak Valimaki
Mackey


Markstrom
Rittich

[Lanny_McDonald]

The Flames are really caught between a rock and a hard place. They have some interesting pieces to make deals, but they have no direction. The team is playing a style almost a decade out of vogue. The current NHL is focused on speed, quick transition, and penetration of the middle of the ice into the high danger areas. This team is playing a ring around the boards game and it is highly ineffective and leads to little success. Worse, it is like watching paint dry. The team made a mistake hiring Sutter and will pay for it in the upcoming years as the prospects in the system are not built for the game he wants to play. So what would I do?

1 - Fire Sutter and the entire coaching staff. Get rid of them and their game plan. It is terrible hockey and not suited to the talent on the team.

2 - Hire Bruce Boudreau. The guy knows how to use talent available to him and will use the players to the best of their abilities. We may not win more, but we will at least have a product worth watching.

Recognizing that #1 and #2 are not remotely possible, then start building a team that is more likely to be successful under the Sutter brand.

3 - Make a deal with Seattle to take Milan Lucic. I'd swing them a 2nd in 2022 and their pick of of any of our prospects not named Zary, Pelletier, Kuznetsov, Poirier, Ruzicka, or Wolf. Just get that $5.25M contract gone.

4 - Trade Matthew Tkachuk and Oliver Kylington ($7.8M) to Nashville for Filip Forsberg and Viktor Arvidsson ($10.25M). Both players have played under the up tempo own the boards systems in the past and have been successful.

5 - Trade Johnny Gaudreau, and Noah Hanifin ($11.7M) to Philadelphia for Travis Konecny, Jakub Voracek, and Morgan Frost ($14.6M). Recoup a 2nd line and a center with potential.

6 - Trade Sean Monahan ($6.375M) to Arizona for Lawson Crouse and Barrett Hayton ($2.295M). Get some size and another center with potential.

7 - Sign Dougie Hamilton. Need a number one defender who can run a damn PP.

8 - Re-sign Brett Ritchie for league minimum.

Forsberg ($6M)-Lindholm ($4.85M)-Arvidsson ($4.25M)
Konecny ($5.5M)-Frost ($.863M)-Voracek ($8.25M)
Dube ($1.5M)-Backlund ($5.35M)-Mangipane ($2.425M)
Crouse ($1.4M)-Hayton ($.895M)-Ritchie ($.700M)

Giordano ($6.75M)-Hamilton ($7.5M)
Valimaki ($2M)-Tanev ($4.5M)
Mackey ($.925)-Anderson ($4.55M)

Markstrom ($6M)
Domingue ($.7M)

$74.9M ($6.5M capspace)

9 - Work with what we have in the system and hope. See of any of the talent on the farm can help. Unfortunately I don't think there is much there. Ruzicka and Mackey seem to be the best hope and they don't move the needle much IMO. Hopefully Pelletier, Zary, and Kuznetsov can come in the next couple years and be change agents.

10 Move out players at the trade deadline where possible and draft some talent with size, especially that shoots right. Restock the minors!!!

That doesn't work...

11 - Suck and rebuild.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I agree with everything but the last one. If the Flames expose Tanev that would be a good thing to me as it means they would be looking to tank but I don't believe that's going to be the case. If this team went into next season with a top 4 of Anderson, Hanifin, Gio, and Valimaki we would be looking at another top 10 draft pick in 2022 and while that's what I would like, the reality is that the organization will be looking to make the playoffs. I also think you are overvaluing what a 38 year old Giordano will be worth at the deadline next season as I think they would be lucky to fetch a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him at most.

It is funny you say they are looking at another top 10 pick but that could easily be false. Andersson has had the fairly typical rough year 1 of a big extension and Valimaki is struggling coming back from a year long injury. Those 2 guys bounce back and Markstrom does the same then the flames are likely picking 11-17 next year.

Laughable to suggest Gio is only worth a 3rd rounder next deadline simply makes you come across as a hater who has no touch with reality. Savard gets a 1st as does Folgino but Gio will only get the team what they got for Rittich or less than they got for Bennett? Gio is pacing for over 40pts this year playing on the top pair so still a top 4 D on almost any team in the league and one with a great reputation, multiple all-star appearances, and a recent Norris win.

Gio doesn’t have a full NMC and can only block 12 teams next deadline so this isn’t Hall or Iggy forcing a bad trade to the team of their choice.