Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

More stuff on Nichuskin, more recent. He's really setting his sights high for next year. But at least doing well to prepare for it (staying in NA and being put through training routines). Also, some were concerned from watching 3 minutes of highlight footage that he couldn't do anything but skate end to end and deeke out the goalie. So yeah, apparently he can pass, very well. Then again I think that's coming from his agent. But the 'far better than barkov' line intrigues me.

The ''he's not always at his best'' line intrigues me, then worries me. I just don't feel he is worth the gamble for this organization. Maybe if we were a team trending up with assets to spare we could. But we are pretty much starting from scratch. Imagine the uproar if the Flames drafted him and he left, or pouted his way out the door and back to Russia.

Jesus God no, we just cannot afford that risk, whether he is the best player or not. It would be beyond devastating to the Flames if we selected him and he bolted. Knowing our luck, I guarantee that it would happen, because the hockey god are always against us. Count me in the boat of being disappointed if Nushuksin is selected.

[sureLoss]

Robb Kerr doing a 10 day countdown to the draft

[MissTeeks]

The one on draft day steals is pretty good:

[Trailer Fire]

The more I read about Nichuskin, the more I am genuinely intrigued. If we could move 22 and 28 and a roster player/decent prospect for somewhere in the top 10ish, I'd love to take a risk on him.

[FlamesAddiction]

Could you guys live with it if we took Monahan instead of Nichushkin and Nichushkin became the next Ovechkin while Monahan became the next Chris Gratton?

I'm just wondering how many people that want to avoid Nichushkin won't hold it against Feaster if the player he picks instead is a marginal player and Nichushkin thrives.

Personally, I think that an organization that lets fear govern it is destined for mediocrity. At least when we peak out at 8th, we can tell ourselves that we played it safe.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Could you guys live with it if we took Monahan instead of Nichushkin and Nichushkin became the next Ovechkin while Monahan became the next Chris Gratton?

I'm just wondering how many people that want to avoid Nichushkin won't hold it against Feaster if the player he picks instead is a marginal player and Nichushkin thrives.

Personally, I think that an organization that lets fear govern it is destined for mediocrity. At least when we peak out at 8th, we can tell ourselves that we played it safe.

It would be much easier to live with than if he turned into the next Filatov and Monahan turned into the next Toews.

As someone who hates Feaster and expects him to f up at every turn I wouldn't hold it against him at all on passing up a risky guy like Nichuskin and going with the safer and equally talented Monahan/Lindholm.

If we were talking 22 and Nichuskin was clearly the best guy then I may be pissed but considering he isn't clearly better than others at the same spot (and may be less talented than Monahan) no reason to get angry if he is skipped with all of his question marks.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by moon

It would be much easier to live with than if he turned into the next Filatov and Monahan turned into the next Toews.

As someone who hates Feaster and expects him to f up at every turn I wouldn't hold it against him at all on passing up a risky guy like Nichuskin and going with the safer and equally talented Monahan/Lindholm.

If we were talking 22 and Nichuskin was clearly the best guy then I may be pissed but considering he isn't clearly better than others at the same spot (and may be less talented than Monahan) no reason to get angry if he is skipped with all of his question marks.

Are Monahan and Lindholm equally as talented as Nichushkin though? That seems to be counter to a lot of the published information on those players. Nichushkin sounds like he is in the same tier as MacKinnon, Drouin and Barkov, and that it is the Russian factor pushing him down.

[djsFlames]

I'm just trying to get more info on Nichuskin, since people here are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on their fears. And it's understandable, but people are taking it really far. Assuming he has a bad attitude, is self righteous, will not take well to adversity, when by all that I've read so far suggests otherwise.. That doesn't completely eliminate the risk of him bolting, but jumping to those conclusions based on absolutely nothing but the fact that he is Russian is pretty short sighted as well.

My preference is Monahan at #6 as it will be the safest possible pick for this team imo, but if they really are considering Nichuskin, I figured it's maybe worth looking into a little further.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Are Monahan and Lindholm equally as talented as Nichushkin though? That seems to be counter to a lot of the published information on those players. Nichushkin sounds like he is in the same tier as MacKinnon, Drouin and Barkov, and that it is the Russian factor pushing him down.

it's not just the russian factor though. Questions around poor interviews at the combine, question marks around his existing KHL contract, his weak showing at the physical combine, and his unwillingness to invest in his development by even considering time in the AHL to adjust to the north american pro game.

If things don't go well initially in his first few years, will he just jet back to the KHL?

[nik-]

Lindholm and Monahan, imo, are safe picks in the positive sense of the word, not the Sutter era "safe pick". Two really talented kids, who if they don't work at center we can move to the Right Wing.

[Trailer Fire]

Wouldn't a weaker showing at the combine be somewhat of a good thing? If he is as good as he seems, but performed poorly in the physical combine, wouldn't that mean there is room for a fair amount of improvement? Meaning he could get even better?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Wouldn't a weaker showing at the combine be somewhat of a good thing? If he is as good as he seems, but performed poorly in the physical combine, wouldn't that mean there is room for a fair amount of improvement? Meaning he could get even better?

He can't jump as far or do as many bench presses ... sure, but not when the weakness is the interview and pushing through to finish a test.

[moon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Are Monahan and Lindholm equally as talented as Nichushkin though? That seems to be counter to a lot of the published information on those players. Nichushkin sounds like he is in the same tier as MacKinnon, Drouin and Barkov, and that it is the Russian factor pushing him down.

I think they are yes. I think he has a lot of "mystique" around him and often that is translated to talent.

Part of talent for me is being able to use that talent at the NHL level and I think that in that regards especially Lindholm and Monahan are definitely at least equal to Nichuskin. I think they all have say 9/10 upside with Lindholm and Monhan having a much higher likelihood of reaching that.

I also wouldn't include Barkov with MacKinnon and Drouin and put him with Monahan/Lindholm/Nichuskin.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

it's not just the russian factor though. Questions around poor interviews at the combine, question marks around his existing KHL contract, his weak showing at the physical combine, and his unwillingness to invest in his development by even considering time in the AHL to adjust to the north american pro game.

If things don't go well initially in his first few years, will he just jet back to the KHL?

Some sources said he interviewed fine and that there was an issue with the translator in some situations. Honestly, a lot of these Canadian and American kids have been trained and conditioned on how to answer questions and interview properly, that I am not sure how much it matters. Unless Nichushkin flipped them off or did something downright disrespectful, I am not worried. If it was a simple matter of not being able to answer questions fluently or properly, then no biggie.

The physical portion of the combine also has a silver lining. He is reportedly staying in North America this summer to improve his training to the standard expected here. IMO, that is a really good sign.

Also, there are no questions about his contract. If he doesn't make the NHL, he will go to Moscow and play for a year. Swedish players have done similar things in the past and it was never an issue.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Wouldn't a weaker showing at the combine be somewhat of a good thing? If he is as good as he seems, but performed poorly in the physical combine, wouldn't that mean there is room for a fair amount of improvement? Meaning he could get even better?

Probably depends on the reason for the poor showing.

If it is because he stills needs to develop than yes it could be a good thing. If it is because he is lazy and didn't try or because he isn't strong enough, big enough or athletic enough then it is a bad thing and huge red flag.

I would expect that at 18 competing against other 18 year olds most elite athletes I wouldn't expect a ton of improvement. It would be the lower ranked/smaller kids that would be the ones likely to have the big physical improvements.

[Trailer Fire]

Being "strong enough" falls under development though. I agree with the lazy aspect though. at 6'4" and over 200 pounds I don't think being "big enough" is a problem at all however.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Wolven

A lot of other people are. In the Lindholm vs Monahan thread it was pretty obvious that a lot of people are high on Lindholm and that he has had a draft year that puts him in very good company:



And apparently Lindholm is earning a lot of Forsberg comparisons.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sweden-...184824712.html

Most assessments are that Lindholm is the more skilled player and Monahan is more defensively responsible but really it seems like people are splitting hairs trying to put one players above the other.

To me that says that if you are willing to take Monahan over Nichushkin then you should also be okay with Lindholm over Nichushkin.

“He can be a tremendous player,” said the national team coach. “He has the smartness and he has the grit to play – he has the most important combination and that is both the will to compete hard and the smarts to be a really good player.”

I will be happy with either Monahan or Lindholm. For some reason I want Monahan though.

I just hope to god Feaster/Shanahan/Weisbrod take one of the two.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Could you guys live with it if we took Monahan instead of Nichushkin and Nichushkin became the next Ovechkin while Monahan became the next Chris Gratton?

I'm just wondering how many people that want to avoid Nichushkin won't hold it against Feaster if the player he picks instead is a marginal player and Nichushkin thrives.

Personally, I think that an organization that lets fear govern it is destined for mediocrity. At least when we peak out at 8th, we can tell ourselves that we played it safe.

I am certain that a fair number of CPers will call for Feaster's head either way. It will be pointed out countless times as evidence of his "incompetence" (because he never played the game, because he is a lawyer, because he is fat, etc.)

Fact is, all of these guys discussed are justifiable picks at #6 but no one knows how they will pan out. Not a Feaster apologist, but given the 300 pages of discussion, there are many ways to look at this draft and who the Flames should pick. [Monahan is my preference, FWIW]

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I am certain that a fair number of CPers will call for Feaster's head either way. It will be pointed out countless times as evidence of his "incompetence" (because he never played the game, because he is a lawyer, because he is fat, etc.)

Fact is, all of these guys discussed are justifiable picks at #6 but no one knows how they will pan out. Not a Feaster apologist, but given the 300 pages of discussion, there are many ways to look at this draft and who the Flames should pick. [Monahan is my preference, FWIW]

It is a virtual certainty that someone after the 6th place will be better than who we pick in the future. At that point there will be much hand wringing. Feaster has almost no win here

[moon]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

Being "strong enough" falls under development though. I agree with the lazy aspect though. at 6'4" and over 200 pounds I don't think being "big enough" is a problem at all however.

By strong enough I mean some guys are going to be only so strong/athletic and they just might not get any better or at an elite level. They may not develop anymore or into an elite level athlete.