Craig's List 2014 Prospects

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

[/LIST]I believe Pietrangelo should be in that elite category (2008).

I also think the results are skewed, as drafting was still relatively poor IMO in the late90s/early00s due to both limited technology, as well as the NHL's poor financial standing.

If you look at the 4th overall picks from 2006 to 2010, you've got:

Elite: Backstrom, Pietrangelo
Top: Johansen, Kane
Regular: Hickey
Bust: None

I could see Johansen cracking into that "elite" category over the next few years as well (2010 pick).

The numbers don't really support that. If that were true you would expect more elite and top players to be found in the later rounds during that time frame. But they aren't.

You are using five players from a single round. You would need to expand that to all rounds to show your point. Plus, I didn't use the most recent 5 drafts because the jury is out on many of the players.

I agree that Pietrangelo should be categorized as elite though. That doesn't change the point though. The chances of getting an elite player outside of the top 2 picks in a normal draft is low. This draft is anticipated to deliver fewer elite players than most drafts. So the Flames should respond accordingly and fans should manage expectations.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by AC

I'll repost this for posterity's sake:

Yeah, I've read and watched both reports and no matter if you make excuses that one is where he'll be picked while the other is where he thinks he should be picked, there is a big disconnect in how he describes the player. I just find the whole situation baffling and wonder what Virtanen did to Craig.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

http://www.extraskater.com/chl/players?top=25

Some of you may enjoy this.

Advanced Stats for the top 25 eligible 2014 draftees.

Sam Bennett and Reinhart look very very good here.

Reinhart was in on 90% of any goals scored by his team when he was on the ice. Draisaitl 91.8%.

Sam Bennett's even strength scoring is phenomenal.

Advanced stats are interesting but I never remember what they mean. Could someone briefly describe what the columns represent, or at least the ones that are important?

Nm, I found the glossary. Now I know what the acronyms mean but I'm still not sure I grasp the significance. What I see is that Nikita Scherbak made his team the most better when he was on the ice?

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, I've read and watched both reports and no matter if you make excuses that one is where he'll be picked while the other is where he thinks he should be picked, there is a big disconnect in how he describes the player. I just find the whole situation baffling and wonder what Virtanen did to Craig.

If anything with how close Craig's ratings seem to be to the Flames recent picks, it probably means that Virtanen isn't high on Calgary's list. Which in my books is a really good thing.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

If anything with how close Craig's ratings seem to be to the Flames recent picks, it probably means that Virtanen isn't high on Calgary's list. Which in my books is a really good thing.

I wonder if part of it is how often Button has viewed Virtanen. Which is to say - the more you watch a player the more you notice their weaknesses - and then you start to see those weaknesses more and more.

He's probably viewed few prospects as much as Virtanen.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I wonder if part of it is how often Button has viewed Virtanen. Which is to say - the more you watch a player the more you notice their weaknesses - and then you start to see those weaknesses more and more.

He's probably viewed few prospects as much as Virtanen.

That's probably the most interesting thing about Button's take on Virtanen, he said he's seen him 30-40 times (or something similar), but I don't recall him being based in the west. I thought he was based in Toronto at TSN.

[Ashasx]

I see Craig all the time at Safeway. He does spend enough time in Calgary.

I don't think that's something he would lie about.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

That's probably the most interesting thing about Button's take on Virtanen, he said he's seen him 30-40 times (or something similar), but I don't recall him being based in the west. I thought he was based in Toronto at TSN.

I thought his home base is still Calgary?

[MrMastodonFarm]

With all the time he spends on TSN and the NHL network I had just assumed he was based in Toronto now.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I just read Steve Simmons story on Josh Ho-Sang and I've got to say, it's a brilliant article, but I'm a little torn on the issue personally.

I'll start by saying I love cockiness in an athlete. Outside of hockey, some of my favourite athletes are cocky. I loved Chad Johnson when he was with the Bengals. Michael Strahan. Shaq. Barkley. Roberto Duran was my favourite boxer. And so on.

In hockey, there's something to be desired in a humble athlete. There's something innate in hockey culture about humility. Personally, it's the reason I find it hard to watch, listen or read hockey players' interviews. It's so damn boring. The entire culture of hockey is lame and not entertaining. The on-ice stuff is top notch, probably the best in the world IMO. Off-ice it's lame.

When it comes to the quotes by Josh Ho-Sang in Simmons' story, you can definitely tell the kid is as intelligent as they come (minus the race card comments). He speaks honestly and his confidence (cockiness) comes off as a naive 18-year-old, but that's awesome. I love it.

For example, this is him talking about the Maple Leafs potentially moving up to first overall in the draft:

“The Leafs have said they want to move up to pick first,” Ho-Sang said.

“Well, they can stay at eight and still get the No. 1 pick.”

Here's another beauty:

“Any team should want me,” he said.

“And I know, it would not hurt a team to have one of their best players being black and have an Asian last name. That wouldn’t hurt marketability or jersey selling one bit. Just from the standpoint of making money, I feel I’d be a pretty big ticket. A lot of my goals are close to highlight-reel goals. I play an exciting game.

Frickin' awesome. Sign me up for this kid to be on the Flames if he falls to one of our second rounders.

The hockey world needs more colourful quotes and more lively players as opposed to deadpan, mundane, buzzing-fluorescent-bulb players. Reporters and fans are dying for controversy and 'beefs', if you will. Even if they're fake beefs for the sake of showmanship (i.e., Roddy White vs. Richard Sherman). I simply think the hockey world isn't ready for players like Evander Kane, Patrick Kane, Brad Marchand, P.K. Subban, Brandon Gallagher, or Josh Ho-Sang.

My point being, if this kid is the most talented kid in the draft, as some say, take a stab at him. Who cares if he's extremely cocky? He's exciting. At the end of the article he says he'd follow rules on any team that takes him. That's promising. With the right coach (and the right coach being Hartley), I think this kid could be as cocky and as colourful as he wants on and off the ice as long as he does it within the framework of a team.

Here's the article: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/24...joshua-ho-sang

[Ashasx]

He compares himself to McDavid when, ignoring his attitude completely, he has so many holes in his game.

I think hockey is a humble game. You need to understand your weaknesses. More than any other sport, you need to be a jack of all trades to be a player in the NHL.

You can't get by on just skating or shooting or puck skills or pure athletic ability alone.

I don't know if JHS knows that. He doesn't realize that he probably wouldn't be taken top 10 even in this weak draft if he didn't have such a strange personality.

[Sandman]

Hockey is a TEAM game, nobody wants a player who will come in and upset the dynamics of the dressing room with an attitude like that....

[Gaskal]

I'm okay with confidence and assuredness, but not arrogance on that scale.

[sureLoss]

Josh Ho-Sang's ego is so big it cannot be contained in one thread

[nik-]

“The Leafs have said they want to move up to pick first,” Ho-Sang said.

“Well, they can stay at eight and still get the No. 1 pick.”

There was some negative reaction to this statement in the other thread, but I personally see nothing wrong with a player saying something like that ...

... in a bubble.

[driveway]

Right before the draft I'm going to play Debbie Downer, mostly just to remind myself to calm the hell down, so ignore this post if you want to be really excited about Friday.

Here's Lou Lamoriello from Hockey Central's Tuesday show. Asked about the draft, her replied:

"Well actually I just stepped out of our meetings here in New Jersey and certainly I am getting now all the information together from our all scouts and their perception is that the consensus stops at a certain point in the draft and after that it's really ... who can you find that's maybe a little different. But I think the consensus, as I said, is one of the worst of recent years, from our perspective here, throughout our scouting staff."

Now I know that Jersey drafts 30th, so how much bearing this comment has on expectations for a top-4 draft choice is unclear. But for myself I'm going to be tempering my excitement a great deal.

The more I think about it, if a guy who's projected to be a solid, dependable, point-producing, if unspectacular defenceman is the consensus #1 choice, I think what we should be expecting at #4 is someone who can be expected to play on the second or third line and maybe have one career year of 70 points, but generally produce around 50 points and anything we get beyond that is awesome.

I think comparisons like Draisaitl to Kopitar, or Bennett to Gilmour are going to end up being wildly unfounded. I expect to get someone a lot more along the lines of Bryan Little (12th overall), Kyle Turris (3rd), or Stephen Weiss (4th). Good players, important players, but not All-stars.

Drafts that produce more than four or five all-stars in the first round are very rare. And given the talk around this draft, I can't imagine this being one of those years. I expect three or four players taken in the first round to make an All-Star team, and likely at least one or two of those are going to be taken somewhere in the bottom-half of the round, that's just the pattern of NHL drafts, going back twenty years. I imagine one of Ekblad-Bennett-Reinhart-Draisaitl will turn out to be an all-star calibre player. I hope like crazy that we get the one who does, but I'm preparing myself for Kyle Turris.

[nik-]

yeah, this draft isn't that great compared to ones like last year, but it doesn't matter ... we're getting Reinhart

And if it doesn't happen, I'm burning my apartment building down

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by nik-

yeah, this draft isn't that great compared to ones like last year, but it doesn't matter ... we're getting Reinhart

And if it doesn't happen, I'm burning my apartment building down

You better film this.

[A Shot Wide]

I think this draft is getting criminally underrated. Fact of the matter is you can't know until years down the road, and of course comparing this draft to last years or strong years before will make it seem a bit underwhelming. But in my mind the top end of the draft (top 4 conveniently) seem to have a very high potential if developed properly. I've even read articles where Sabres Asst. GM I believe called Reinhart the smartest player in recent memory (correct me if I'm wrong) and Bennett has been said to have a career projection very similar to Toews in regards to potential. I have full confidence we're going to get a very important player moving forward, and I don't really put too much stock into Lou's comments considering he's picking last in the first round. It may be accurate to say this draft is wide open after ~15-20 to 60 or higher, but that doesn't mean you can't find quality players if your scouts have done their due diligence.

Similar comments are always made about every draft (perhaps excluding 03 and 13) but the fact is it's way too early to make any sort of concrete projections on these players, mine included. Also, players like Kopitar weren't even Kopitar until they realized their potential. It seems foolish to say a player like Draisaitl (who is worst case scenario for us picking top 4, ruling out Ritchie as an option) can't become similar to Kopitar in 6-8 years, as he's arguably further along at 18 and has incredible room for growth.

[driveway]

I think there is less than a 2% chance Bennett ends up on the same level as Toews or Draisaitl as Kopitar. I hope I'm wrong and I hope one of them is a Flame, but seriously, Toews is a perennial threat to win the Hart, one of the best three two-way centres in the game, and a Conn Smythe winner. Kopitar is almost on the same level as Toews, to expect to find TWO players like that in a draft which professionals are universally disparaging is so unlikely as to be an absurd expectation.

Be satisfied when we get a good second-line, 25 goal 30-40 assist centre.