2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[The Yen Man]

The fact that I think Russell is already somewhat overpaid right now tells me I'll hate whatever he's re-signed for it he is indeed re-signed.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No more head-scratching than the people in this thread ready to dismiss a 20-year-old drafted 3rd overall as someone who's value has plummeted so far he's no longer worth a 1st round pick, and will never reach his potential.

I agree and think it's a real stretch to say Ferland gets you anywhere near a deal for Drouin.

However that's no excuse for the ignorant, pompous talk about Ferland like he's a stagnant 29 year old career 4th liner in the last few pages.

Both those points are equally out-to-lunch.

[AC]

I can't wait for the whining when we do re-sign Russell. It'll be hilarious.

For the record I'd look to trade Russell myself if there's interest. I also wouldn't mind him re-signing for $3M. $3.5M for 3 years max.

[JiriHrdina]

If we walk away from the deadline with a pair of 2nds (one for Hudler, the other for Russell) I'll be happy. Anything more than that and I'll be thrilled.

[Bourque's Twin]

Ferland has never played a full NHL season. He played house league until he was 15, and his junior and minor career development was hampered by his alcohol use. Despite that, he was the best player in a playoff series and has solidified himself into the Flames lineup, getting 1st line minutes and not looking out of place. This is his rookie season and he's done this much.

If you ignore the statistics and watch Ferland play, you will see that he is not a career bottom-6 forward. This is what the entire Flames management also sees. Ferland is a good skater, has good hands, can shoot the puck well, and is a huge physical force who can fight very well. He's exactly the type of player that will make the Flames difficult to play against in the playoffs.

From the Flames perspective, it's hard to compare the value of Drouin to a guy like Ferland. They bring different skillsets to the team, and I feel like the Flames are more in need of Ferland's skillset than Drouin's. The Flames will be a good offensive team going forward (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano).

From a pure asset management perspective it's a no-brainer to trade Ferland for Drouin. But, I don't think that's what builds good hockey teams necessarily. I always refer back to Ference + Kobasew for B. Stuart and Primeau. On paper it worked, but on the ice it didn't.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Ferland has never played a full NHL season. He played house league until he was 15, and his junior and minor career development was hampered by his alcohol use. Despite that, he was the best player in a playoff series and has solidified himself into the Flames lineup, getting 1st line minutes and not looking out of place. This is his rookie season and he's done this much.

If you ignore the statistics and watch Ferland play, you will see that he is not a career bottom-6 forward. This is what the entire Flames management also sees. Ferland is a good skater, has good hands, can shoot the puck well, and is a huge physical force who can fight very well. He's exactly the type of player that will make the Flames difficult to play against in the playoffs.

From the Flames perspective, it's hard to compare the value of Drouin to a guy like Ferland. They bring different skillsets to the team, and I feel like the Flames are more in need of Ferland's skillset than Drouin's. The Flames will be a good offensive team going forward (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano).

From a pure asset management perspective it's a no-brainer to trade Ferland for Drouin. But, I don't think that's what builds good hockey teams necessarily. I always refer back to Ference + Kobasew for B. Stuart and Primeau. On paper it worked, but on the ice it didn't.

His story is amazing, but let's not go crazy. He's a dime-a-dozen type of player that some fans tend to glorify due to his contributions against our bitter rival in a playoff series.

But is he irreplaceable? I think finding a big body who is a pretty good skater and bangs is not as rare a skill set as many people seem to think.

[Demetric]

Resign Russell ...

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

His story is amazing, but let's not go crazy. He's a dime-a-dozen type of player that some fans tend to glorify due to his contributions against our bitter rival in a playoff series.

But is he irreplaceable? I think finding a big body who is a pretty good skater and bangs is not as rare a skill set as many people seem to think.

that may be so but it is rarer that you seem to think as well

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

He's a dime-a-dozen type of player that some fans tend to glorify due to his contributions against our bitter rival in a playoff series.

Well, I disagree that (Ferland)'s a dime-a-dozen type of player. Guys with his combination of size, hands, intelligence, and skating are rare, even if we're just talking 3rd liners. Name a comparable and you'll find that player isn't all that similar to Ferland in one way or another. People focus too much on his hitting, he's had some games that were completely impressive where I don't know if he made a hit in them. You look at Kassian, and I point to the idiotic PIMs he's known for. You look at Bouma, I point to the possession that he drives. You look at Byron, I point to the size and shot. You look at Dustin Brown, and I point to the fact that Dustin Brown is the captain of a two-time champion and we'd be ecstatic if Ferland becomes that.

Guys like Drouin are more dime a dozen arguably, other than Drouin's potential (which is different from what he is now). Everybody has an undersized dangling wizard or two that's tweening between the minors and majors.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well, I disagree that (Ferland)'s a dime-a-dozen type of player. Guys with his combination of size, hands, intelligence, and skating are rare, even if we're just talking 3rd liners. Name a comparable and you'll find that player isn't all that similar to Ferland in one way or another. People focus too much on his hitting, he's had some games that were completely impressive where I don't know if he made a hit in them. You look at Kassian, and I point to the idiotic PIMs he's known for. You look at Bouma, I point to the possession that he drives. You look at Byron, I point to the size and shot. You look at Dustin Brown, and I point to the fact that Dustin Brown is the captain of a two-time champion and we'd be ecstatic if Ferland becomes that.

Guys like Drouin are more dime a dozen arguably, other than Drouin's potential (which is different from what he is now). Everybody has an undersized dangling wizard or two that's tweening between the minors and majors.

Dime-a-dozen is harsh, admittedly. There is value in his skillset, and if he remains healthy he's got a 3rd/4th line role carved out for quite some time in the NHL. I just think the love for him gets a bit carried away sometimes.

I think a ceiling for him would be something like Dwight King (who's having a nice season, BTW). 25-30 point player who brings size and physicality to the bottom 6.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Ferland has never played a full NHL season. He played house league until he was 15, and his junior and minor career development was hampered by his alcohol use. Despite that, he was the best player in a playoff series and has solidified himself into the Flames lineup, getting 1st line minutes and not looking out of place. This is his rookie season and he's done this much.

If you ignore the statistics and watch Ferland play, you will see that he is not a career bottom-6 forward. This is what the entire Flames management also sees. Ferland is a good skater, has good hands, can shoot the puck well, and is a huge physical force who can fight very well. He's exactly the type of player that will make the Flames difficult to play against in the playoffs.

From the Flames perspective, it's hard to compare the value of Drouin to a guy like Ferland. They bring different skillsets to the team, and I feel like the Flames are more in need of Ferland's skillset than Drouin's. The Flames will be a good offensive team going forward (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano).

From a pure asset management perspective it's a no-brainer to trade Ferland for Drouin. But, I don't think that's what builds good hockey teams necessarily. I always refer back to Ference + Kobasew for B. Stuart and Primeau. On paper it worked, but on the ice it didn't.

Agreed here. Drouin probably has more "currency" value to him, but Ferland just fits what this team needs. He's probably has no unique skill akin to Lucic, but I think he's a great fit. Drouin may have a lot of skill, and there's no denying his draft ranking (3rd) but I don't know if I see the fit? It really sucks for Drouin cause he has a lot of pressure on him, would be easier if he was drafted lower. So I'd keep Ferland for the same reason aforementioned mistake of trading away a No 5 D-man in Andrew Ference.

Also think Ferlands backstory matters... gives you an upwards trajectory, i.e. that he didn't play until he was 15. I think he's got a lot of upside still, but we'll see.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Dime-a-dozen is harsh, admittedly. There is value in his skillset, and if he remains healthy he's got a 3rd/4th line role carved out for quite some time in the NHL. I just think the love for him gets a bit carried away sometimes.

I think a ceiling for him would be something like Dwight King (who's having a nice season, BTW). 25-30 point player who brings size and physicality to the bottom 6.

Dwight King's comparable would be a guy like Lance Bouma. Ferland is already a better possession-forward than that. Ferland is a 50.5% possession forward. Dwight King is 51.5%. The difference? The Kings are a 56.2% possession team and the Flames are a 47.5% possession team.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Ferland has never played a full NHL season. He played house league until he was 15, and his junior and minor career development was hampered by his alcohol use. Despite that, he was the best player in a playoff series and has solidified himself into the Flames lineup, getting 1st line minutes and not looking out of place. This is his rookie season and he's done this much.

The Legend of Eddie Lack grows with each passing game.

No, Ferland was not Calgary's best player in that Series.

TJ BRODIE was far and away Calgary's MVP last year from basically game 1 of the season through the final game against Anaheim.

Why is his rookie season at 23? Answer, because at 19, 20, 21 and 22 he wasn't a good enough player to play in the NHL, even when Calgary was so awful they finished 4th last in the league.

I'm sure I will once again be accused of being a hater here for correcting a vocal majority, but what has Ferland done in his pro hockey career to make people think he is anything resembling a core player?

Ferland is a nice prospect, a good guy to have on the roster and I like him as a player. Right now though, based on what I've seen from him in the last 3 years, I don't think he'll ever score more than 15 goals in a season and will probably average less than 10 per season that he's in the league. I think passing is his best offensive attribute, and he can pull a dandy one out of nowhere, but I've had to reassess my expectations of Ferland because he simply isn't an offensive player in the NHL.

So to get off of the tangent and back to the original response I was making, yes, you pull the trigger immediately on an offer of Drouin for Ferland + 2nd round pick.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why is his rookie season at 23? Answer, because at 19, 20, 21 and 22 he wasn't a good enough player to play in the NHL, even when Calgary was so awful they finished 4th last in the league.

Revisionist history much? Ferland was playing in the NHL at age 22, and playing well enough that they actually told him they were going to try to move a body (Glencross) out so he could be on the team full time, all this despite him playing after a concussion. He was about to be called up at age 21 too, before he blew out his knee.

I'm sure I will once again be accused of being a hater here for correcting a vocal majority, but what has Ferland done in his pro hockey career to make people think he is anything resembling a core player?

I posted it right here. The only sample we have of Ferland in a top 6 role shows top 6 (role player) point production and elite possession for being on a terrible possession team. He passed the eye test of at least some of us, too.

Ferland is a nice prospect, a good guy to have on the roster and I like him as a player. Right now though, based on what I've seen from him in the last 3 years, I don't think he'll ever score more than 15 goals in a season and will probably average less than 10 per season that he's in the league.

You're welcome to your opinion. I'll stick to Craig Conroy's opinion that he'll be a 20+ goal guy.

[Flash Walken]

What a bizarre thread.

This time last year I was arguing with posters about trading Glencross to make room for Ferland, now I'm arguing that I would move Ferland and a 2nd for Drouin, and in both instances, there seems to be vehement opposition.

What a rollercoaster.

[GioforPM]

I like Ferland - I think he's made slow but steady progress (with a huge but perhaps unrepresentative blip in last year's POs). I think he can score 20 (Jones did and I think Ferland can easily be as good as Jones).

I don't particularly like Drouin, either as far as his actions and strategy are concerned or his playing style and potential fit here. I don't think he'd do any better as a Flame than in Tampa.

But I also think you wouldn't pass up a deal for Ferland plus a 2nd to get Drouin. I also think there's no way Tampa would ever do that deal.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What a bizarre thread.

This time last year I was arguing with posters about trading Glencross to make room for Ferland, now I'm arguing that I would move Ferland and a 2nd for Drouin, and in both instances, there seems to be vehement opposition.

What a rollercoaster.

So....this time last year you were arguing that 22-year old Micheal Ferland deserved to play in the NHL full-time, now you're arguing that at 22 he wasn't a good enough player to play in the NHL...?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The Legend of Eddie Lack grows with each passing game.

No, Ferland was not Calgary's best player in that Series.

TJ BRODIE was far and away Calgary's MVP last year from basically game 1 of the season through the final game against Anaheim.

Why is his rookie season at 23? Answer, because at 19, 20, 21 and 22 he wasn't a good enough player to play in the NHL, even when Calgary was so awful they finished 4th last in the league.

I'm sure I will once again be accused of being a hater here for correcting a vocal majority, but what has Ferland done in his pro hockey career to make people think he is anything resembling a core player?

Ferland is a nice prospect, a good guy to have on the roster and I like him as a player. Right now though, based on what I've seen from him in the last 3 years, I don't think he'll ever score more than 15 goals in a season and will probably average less than 10 per season that he's in the league. I think passing is his best offensive attribute, and he can pull a dandy one out of nowhere, but I've had to reassess my expectations of Ferland because he simply isn't an offensive player in the NHL.

So to get off of the tangent and back to the original response I was making, yes, you pull the trigger immediately on an offer of Drouin for Ferland + 2nd round pick.

I agree that Ferland will probably not score more than 15 goals in a season. If he does do it, I doubt he will do it more than 2 times. I don't hate his potential productivity, but he is already very injury-prone, and this is likely to get even worse in the future.

12 goals and 12 assists in 50 games is still top 6 worthy for a power-forward.

I would also take Drouin for Ferland and a second. Quite simply, he probably has more value than that around the league. Even if you didn't want Drouin, you could probably just trade him away for more than that immediately.

Also, the more elite potential players we have, the more of them will actually turn out. Having him plus another high pick this year would make things very exciting. Imagine having Bennett, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Monahan, Laine, Drouin and possibly Gillies in net for the next 10+ years. That's a pretty good young core.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If we walk away from the deadline with a pair of 2nds (one for Hudler, the other for Russell) I'll be happy. Anything more than that and I'll be thrilled.

Although I don't think there is any way we get a first, I'd be disappointed if that's all we get. I hope Russell alone gets us a 2nd and a 3rd. That said, Hudler needs to pick it up to net a 2nd.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

So....this time last year you were arguing that 22-year old Micheal Ferland deserved to play in the NHL full-time, now you're arguing that at 22 he wasn't a good enough player to play in the NHL...?

Yes, exactly.

This time last year, when Ferland was 22 and not in the NHL, I was arguing for him to be given a spot on the roster at the expense of Glencross, even if Ferland wasn't ready for full-time action because stretch drive/playoff experience is valuable.

He wasn't good enough to make the roster last year until spots were opened up for him.

This year, at 23, he's good enough to play on the roster but not so good that I wouldn't trade him for a player with more potential.

See, that was easy, right?