Brad Treliving needs to go

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I laughed at the idea of James Neal diving. Perhaps he would have done that earlier in his career, but the James Neal we got? He wouldn't put in the effort to dive down to the ice and have to climb back up to his skates.

The James Neal we got was the laziest player I've seen in the modern NHL.

His claim to fame as a Flame was the slow mo replays of his teeth falling out every 3rd game.

Also pre-Flame he was a pretty dirty player.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But BT has also said they had talked to Sutter before and the timing wasn't right.
People will believe what aligns to their opinion.

Treliving also said: “You’re aware of what’s out there in terms of the coaching landscape. I felt Geoff was the absolute best person to carry us forward.”

And then four months later someone fired Ward and hired Sutter.

But sure, I guess I think the evidence points to someone higher up signing Sutter. Someone else might interpret the evidence differently. Either way, Treliving hasn't done a good enough job as Flames GM.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

This thread shouldn't live or die by the most recent game. The Flames played great last night and beat one of the best teams in the league handily. Nevertheless, Treliving is a poor GM and has spend 8 years building a fairly flawed team.

Ownership stepped in and gave them a hall of fame coach after many poor coaching hires by Treliving. So now the team has a decent chance to win every night, but the margin for error is small given the flaws in the roster.

The team's two best players are both LWs, and both have pressing contract issues. Treliving has done ok with RFAs when he has most of the power, but not so well when the player has the power.

The Flames don't have an elite #1 centre. Overall centre depth is also well below what a contender should have.

They don't have a #1 Dman, even a mid tier one, despite Treliving spending a ton of resources on defence. After Sutter and Johnny, the number 1 positive for this season has to be Kylington. A player Treliving tried to give away multiple times.

RW is incredibly weak, even though that has been a problem for several seasons, it hasn't been improved.

Drafting has been good, given what they have to work with, but over Brad's tenure they've had both too few picks and too low of quality of picks.

Obviously, because the NHL is a league that rarely tries anything new, they won't fire the Wizard during the season. But they should. There are basically two times a GM can make trades in the NHL these days, the trade deadline and the weeks leading up to the draft. With the deadline coming up soon, it's actually the perfect time to bring in a new GM with a fresh perspective. But it won't happen.

Finally, it is possible to both enjoy a dominate win against one of the leagues best teams, and recognize that the current GM has done a less than acceptable job over eight seasons. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

It's just pointless though...Flames have the same points percentage as Vegas....GM isn't going anywhere, they are tied for the division lead and have played 13 home games. Home ice in round one seems pretty likely.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It's just pointless though...Flames have the same points percentage as Vegas....GM isn't going anywhere, they are tied for the division lead and have played 13 home games. Home ice in round one seems pretty likely.

Current position in standings should not be the only measure for the GM. What the current state of the organization and the trend it is on should be how the GM is judged. Is the team in a better place now than when he took over? Is it trending in the right direction? What does the future look like as a result of this GM's work? That's how you judge the GM.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But BT has also said they had talked to Sutter before and the timing wasn't right.

Not just Treliving. Sutter also said something along the same lines in one of his first press conferences.

[Blaster86]

Go where? He's not dressed and I'm low on gas money.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Current position in standings should not be the only measure for the GM. What the current state of the organization and the trend it is on should be how the GM is judged. Is the team in a better place now than when he took over? Is it trending in the right direction? What does the future look like as a result of this GM's work? That's how you judge the GM.

Okay spend your time complaining about something that will never happen. No team tied for a division lead is firing their GM mid season.

Should the Flames miss the playoffs or lose in round one there might actually be a debate to be had...need to see how it plays out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Okay spend your time complaining about something that will never happen.

Not complaining. Just pointing out how a GM should be judged. Position in standings is really irrelevant when evaluating the job of the guy doing future planning.

No team tied for a division lead is firing their GM mid season.

I don't disagree. Unfortunately, the Flames are NOT leading their division, so as you put it, maybe we shouldn't be talking about something that may never happen?

Should the Flames miss the playoffs or lose in round one there might actually be a debate to be had...need to see how it plays out.

The decision should not be based solely on missing the playoffs or losing in round X. It should be based on his performance in building the organization and improving the future state. That is how he should be judged. We could win the division, lose in round three, and still have a very poorly constructed team. The last condition is more important than all the others and what the GM should be judged on. I would say the status of Johnny Gaudreau with the Calgary Flames will determine the longevity of the GM.

[K1LLswitch]

Flames are at an interesting fork in the road this off season. Re-sign Johnny, Chucky and Bread and this team is tight against the cap, still missing a top 6 RW but otherwise pretty solid. Not too 5 in the league, but 5-10…not bad, but maybe the enough to make the playoffs but not go too deep.

If we don’t keep Johnny and the others take their QO, this team is in full rebuild mode I think, as you suddenly have giant holes in your lineup.

Treliving is going to see if this core and make the playoffs and make some
Noise. If they can’t, don’t sign any one and it is likely time to blow it up.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It's just pointless though...Flames have the same points percentage as Vegas....GM isn't going anywhere, they are tied for the division lead and have played 13 home games. Home ice in round one seems pretty likely.

I admire your confidence. I think they are in a dog fight to make the playoffs all year. This team is not that good.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

I admire your confidence. I think they are in a dog fight to make the playoffs all year. This team is not that good.

This team has 22 more goals scored than against in 35 games. The lull comes after a huge break where the whole team had covid.

Top 3 in goals against
Top 5 in penalty kill
13th in goals scored
11th in power play
Top 10 in shots allowed
Top 5 in shots for

Why is this team not good?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

I admire your confidence. I think they are in a dog fight to make the playoffs all year. This team is not that good.

At this point in time, 12 of 32 teams in the league have a better winning percentage.

All of those 31 teams have played , a few to many (the majority), more home games than the Flames.

The Flames are 5th in winning percentage in the Western Conference.

The Flames GF/ GA differential is 10th in the NHL and 4th in the WC.

“This team is not that good”.

Take the cynical goggles off and look at the actual facts, up to this point of the season.

The Flames are good.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

I admire your confidence. I think they are in a dog fight to make the playoffs all year. This team is not that good.

They have the same points percentage as Vegas...are they in a dogfight to make the playoffs?

If you want to think that teams who have played 4,5,6 more games and have a couple more points are actually ahead of the Flames that's fine


NHL standings should be points percentage...if the league shut down today that is how it would be determined.

I can't predict the future but thus far the Flames have been at least the 2nd best team in the pacific and the division is really all that matters.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not complaining. Just pointing out how a GM should be judged. Position in standings is really irrelevant when evaluating the job of the guy doing future planning.



I don't disagree. Unfortunately, the Flames are NOT leading their division, so as you put it, maybe we shouldn't be talking about something that may never happen?



The decision should not be based solely on missing the playoffs or losing in round X. It should be based on his performance in building the organization and improving the future state. That is how he should be judged. We could win the division, lose in round three, and still have a very poorly constructed team. The last condition is more important than all the others and what the GM should be judged on. I would say the status of Johnny Gaudreau with the Calgary Flames will determine the longevity of the GM.

The Flames are tied for the division lead on points percentage...unless you are just assuming they will lose all games in hand

[heep223]

They are not currently in a dog fight for the playoffs. Some people really don’t understand the concept of points percentage and games in hand, or at least they minimize it out of either laziness or confirmation bias or both.

[powderjunkie]

If we extrapolate current pt% out to the 41 game mark for all teams, here are the standings in points form:

60.4 Colorado Avalanche
55.1 Minnesota Wild
53.6 St. Louis Blues
51.0 Nashville Predators
46.9 Winnipeg Jets
43.3 Dallas Stars
37.8 Chicago Blackhawks
24.4 Arizona Coyotes

49.2 Vegas Golden Knights
49.2 Calgary Flames
46.1 Los Angeles Kings
45.1 San Jose Sharks
45.0 Anaheim Ducks
44.5 Edmonton Oilers
41.0 Vancouver Canucks
28.1 Seattle Kraken


Top 4 CEN teams look pretty safe for 3 spots and 1 wildcard.

Leaving 7 teams with a 5 point spread for 4 spots. Dog fight might be a little strong, but it would only take 1-2 wins/losses by certain teams to make things nearly even

[powderjunkie]

EAST:

59.9 Florida Panthers
59.0 Tampa Bay Lightning
58.1 Toronto Maple Leafs
52.4 Boston Bruins
42.0 Detroit Red Wings
32.6 Buffalo Sabres
30.8 Ottawa Senators
22.7 Montreal Canadiens


61.5 Carolina Hurricanes
56.8 New York Rangers
55.0 Pittsburgh Penguins
54.3 Washington Capitals
41.0 New York Islanders
39.9 Columbus Blue Jackets
36.6 New Jersey Devils
35.7 Philadelphia Flyers

Basically a 10 point gap from WC2 to #9

[dino7c]

nothing is ever a guarantee but its hard to make up points in this league...Flames would have to really blow it to have all those Cali teams pass them.

The fact that the Flames also have mostly home games and only travel out east for ONE game is also pretty huge IMO.

Can't predict the future but despite the most travel and the fewest home games in the league they are right there with Vegas. Flames are in a good spot thus far, if anything they should have more points they have lost countless games they have dominated and very few the other way around IMO.

[Vinny01]

If the Flames can dial it in at the Dome over the next few months they should have a good shot at their second division title in 4 years

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Flames are tied for the division lead on points percentage...unless you are just assuming they will lose all games in hand

Games in hand only count if you win them.If we are using the home record winning percentage to project future success, then the outcome may not be as rosy as you project. Or do we ignore the mediocre home record and don’t acknowledge that trend as a variable in projections?