Golf!!!2!

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

If you don't announce it as a provisional and go through the routine like DoubleK describes, then it's not a provisional no matter where the first one is. The second ball is in play no matter what.

In this case it didn't matter whether he announced it as a provisional or not, his second ball became his in-play ball.

[DoubleK]

The sad thing is that it would appear that a bunch of jokers on a message board in Canada talked more about what was going on than the players did in Florida.

I was looking through the results from stage 2 and it looks like Richard Jung from Toronto is the only Canadian that made it through to the final stage. Fritsch and Silverman missed and will have to rely on Sponsor Exemptions and/or Monday Qs to play next season.

Don't see either of them playing on the CanTour, doesn't really make financial sense for them to do that.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Slava

But if he hits it off the tee and thinks it's in the water, he can tee up and hit three from the tee, right? Like it's not him thinking it's a provisional...he just thinks that ball is gone.

No. A ball hit into a hazard of any type does not allow for a provisional. This is a very basic rule. You hit into a hazard, you must play from the hazard, take relief from within the hazard, or drop as the rules of golf demand. There is no teeing up another from the tee box if you hit something into an area marked with yellow or red stakes.

The issue comes when he walks up and his ball isn't actually gone. He thought it was wet, it's not and he thinks, "well, I have to play the first one here", which makes sense to me and seems like an easy mistake. Sure, someone should've said something, but that's the part where it's obscure, not the second tee shot.

The problem is he hit a second ball. Once he does the first ball no longer exists because of the conditions he has hit into. If he thinks there is a possibility he got through, he should search and make an determination. If the ball is lost, then take the drop according to the rules based on the staking of the hazard. This claim that this is an obscure rule is really specious as it is a pretty consistent interpretation if the player knows the rules of the color of stakes. If the stakes were white, he would have a leg to stand on. Because it was a hazard means he put a ball into play and has live with that shot even if he finds the original.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The sad thing is that it would appear that a bunch of jokers on a message board in Canada talked more about what was going on than the players did in Florida.

I was looking through the results from stage 2 and it looks like Richard Jung from Toronto is the only Canadian that made it through to the final stage. Fritsch and Silverman missed and will have to rely on Sponsor Exemptions and/or Monday Qs to play next season.

Don't see either of them playing on the CanTour, doesn't really make financial sense for them to do that.

Looks like Disco Stu McDonald is going to make it as well. Some of the Canadians list their 'winter' home as their address so hard to see where people are from.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

No. A ball hit into a hazard of any type does not allow for a provisional. This is a very basic rule. You hit into a hazard, you must play from the hazard, take relief from within the hazard, or drop as the rules of golf demand. There is no teeing up another from the tee box if you hit something into an area marked with yellow or red stakes.



The problem is he hit a second ball. Once he does the first ball no longer exists because of the conditions he has hit into. If he thinks there is a possibility he got through, he should search and make an determination. If the ball is lost, then take the drop according to the rules based on the staking of the hazard. This claim that this is an obscure rule is really specious as it is a pretty consistent interpretation if the player knows the rules of the color of stakes. If the stakes were white, he would have a leg to stand on. Because it was a hazard means he put a ball into play and has live with that shot even if he finds the original.

Isn’t it stroke and distance though? You hit a tee shot into the water, and you know it’s there. You tee it up again and you’re hitting three? I know you can play it from where it enters, or on the line back. But that’s the way it works, right?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is a very basic rule. You hit into a hazard, you must play from the hazard, take relief from within the hazard, or drop as the rules of golf demand. There is no teeing up another from the tee box if you hit something into an area marked with yellow or red stakes.

You absolutely can tee up another from the tee box if you hit it into a penalty area. You probably shouldn't do it in most cases, but it's literally covered under the first option for relief from a penalty area.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Slava

Isn’t it stroke and distance though? You hit a tee shot into the water, and you know it’s there. You tee it up again and you’re hitting three? I know you can play it from where it enters, or on the line back. But that’s the way it works, right?

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but think are missing the definition of a provisional. A provisional is very specifically when you announce I am hitting a provisional under specific circumstances where you think your ball may be lost or OB. A provisional means you are hitting a ball that will count 3 off the tee and if you can't find your ball, it is the ball in play. If you find your ball, you have to play it.

Under all circumstances where you are unhappy with your shot, you can hit your 3rd shot off the tee and if you don't call it a provisional or aren't allowed to call it a provisional (like in this case), then this is the ball in play and you have to play it no matter whether you find your first ball or not.

Edit: I might be confused, and Roughneck's clarification is correct.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

You absolutely can tee up another from the tee box if you hit it into a penalty area. You probably shouldn't do it in most cases, but it's literally covered under the first option for relief from a penalty area.

Yes, that is an option but as soon as you do that the other ball ceases to exist. There is no provisional opportunity while hitting into a hazard. That is the point of the ruling under discussion. The player hit a ball into a hazard, then hit a second ball, then went and played the original ball after finding it playable in the hazard. That is why the player was sent to the Dairy Queen. He played a ball that was abandoned by the rules of golf.

[Slava]

I understand what a provisional is (god knows I’ve had to hit enough of them!). I just wanted clarification because Lanny said you can’t hit that next shot from the tee, and you can for sure. Maybe it’s not advisable, but I think it probably depends on the scenario to an extent.

Anyway…interesting rule that I wasn’t aware of. I’ve hit close to a red stake before and hit a provisional for sure. I’m not ashamed to say that I didn’t know you can’t do that and no one has ever mentioned it to me. Not that I’m anywhere near Q school or playing for real money though!

[Northendzone]

Almost every shot I hit is a provisional

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Slava

I understand what a provisional is (god knows I’ve had to hit enough of them!). I just wanted clarification because Lanny said you can’t hit that next shot from the tee, and you can for sure. Maybe it’s not advisable, but I think it probably depends on the scenario to an extent.

Anyway…interesting rule that I wasn’t aware of. I’ve hit close to a red stake before and hit a provisional for sure. I’m not ashamed to say that I didn’t know you can’t do that and no one has ever mentioned it to me. Not that I’m anywhere near Q school or playing for real money though!

Read what I said again.

"A ball hit into a hazard of any type does not allow for a provisional. This is a very basic rule. You hit into a hazard, you must play from the hazard, take relief from within the hazard, or drop as the rules of golf demand. There is no teeing up another from the tee box if you hit something into an area marked with yellow or red stakes."

This is speaking directly to the provisional and why that rule caught the player. You can't hit another tee ball if you hit into a hazard unless you are declaring the first ball abandoned, which a provisional declaration does not do. The rules of the hazard apply and the appropriate drop scenarios have to be observed, including the option of going back to the tee - which as you said is not advisable. As you pointed out, stroke and distance advantage should be weighed into the decision, but you also need to be aware that a provisional is not allowed and in playing that ball you immediately abandon the ball in the hazard and are not hitting your 4th shot from the resulting location of that tee ball. This is a confusing rule because people assume a provisional is always allowed, but as outlined, it does not. Hopefully this is something that will help you if you ever are playing match play.

[Roughneck]

But taking relief from within the hazard/taking a drop also declare the first ball as abandoned just as another tee shot would. The only thing confusing about the statement has nothing to do with the eligibility of the provisional, it was your assertion that 'teeing it up again' isn't an option when it is.

[AltaGuy]

Finally got myself a new driver. I've been swapping between a Ping Anser and a Ping G15 for about ten years. Bought the G400 Max - used, but new to me. Should gain about twenty yards, all fairway, right?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Finally got myself a new driver. I've been swapping between a Ping Anser and a Ping G15 for about ten years. Bought the G400 Max - used, but new to me. Should gain about twenty yards, all fairway, right?

That's generally how the salespeople explain it to me before they take my money, yes.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Finally got myself a new driver. I've been swapping between a Ping Anser and a Ping G15 for about ten years. Bought the G400 Max - used, but new to me. Should gain about twenty yards, all fairway, right?

Also, if you had it as a demo and were smashing it, that stops when you pay for it! Don’t you just love golf?

Looking outside this morning and the season has come to an abrupt end. I played quite a bit this year and made a good amount of improvement. I really wish I had a place down south (and a few other changes!) so I could fly south and play all winter now.

[Northendzone]

Hard to believe that last Sunday we were wandering the fairways in shorts and a shirt

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

But taking relief from within the hazard/taking a drop also declare the first ball as abandoned just as another tee shot would. The only thing confusing about the statement has nothing to do with the eligibility of the provisional, it was your assertion that 'teeing it up again' isn't an option when it is.

If you hope to play the first ball it is not an option. How hard is this to understand? Unless you are immediately declaring the ball in the hazard abandoned you cannot hit a second tee ball with out a declaration and taking the penalty, which is why the player was disqualified. He hit into a hazard, followed your advice and re-teed before understanding the condition of his first ball, which led to the DQ. The provisional ball is not an option which is exactly what I said, twice.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If you hope to play the first ball it is not an option. How hard is this to understand? Unless you are immediately declaring the ball in the hazard abandoned you cannot hit a second tee ball with out a declaration and taking the penalty, which is why the player was disqualified. He hit into a hazard, followed your advice and re-teed before understanding the condition of his first ball, which led to the DQ. The provisional ball is not an option which is exactly what I said, twice.

Nobody is arguing whether the provisional ball was an option. We know that it isn't.



What I have been saying is wrong is you declaring that re-teeing isn't a hazard relief option.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Nobody is arguing whether the provisional ball was an option. We know that it isn't.

It seems there were since there was confusion about the rule and people questioning the disqualification.

What I have been saying is wrong is you declaring that re-teeing isn't a hazard relief option.

You misinterpreting what I said. Again, read what I ####ing said.

A ball hit into a hazard of any type does not allow for a provisional. This is a very basic rule. You hit into a hazard, you must play from the hazard, take relief from within the hazard, or drop as the rules of golf demand. There is no teeing up another from the tee box if you hit something into an area marked with yellow or red stakes.

This is pertaining to the provisional. You have to drop as per the rules of golf. You do NOT have the option of hitting another ball off the tee (a provisional) unless you first declare the original ball lost. Only once you determine the fate of the first ball can you hit a second tee ball. That is per the rules of golf and as ball is at rest in a hazard. You have the option of relief from the penalty area or hazard which is normally one club for yellow stakes or two clubs for red stakes, and on line where the ball entered the hazard or as far back as the player would like in line with the tee, and yes, this can include hitting from the tee again, as dumb as that would be. But you may NOT hit another tee ball without the declaration. This is why the player was DQed. He played a provisional in a situation where a provisional was not allowed by the rules of golf. You are not allowed to re-tee without a proper declaration on the first ball. This is the part you are missing. You don't get to declassify documents just by thinking about it and you don't get to hit another ball from the tee when your ball is in a penalty area without first declaring an abandoned ball. That is the rule.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It seems there were since there was confusion about the rule and people questioning the disqualification.



You misinterpreting what I said. Again, read what I ####ing said.

I really appreciate the insight you have into the game of golf, I mean that sincerely. But I long for the day you can grow up and move away from the bolded. That is child ****. Do you speak like that to anyone in real life? I really hope not, it's embarrassing. I wouldn't hang around anyone that speaks that way in an otherwise cordial conversation for more than 5 minutes. Brutal stuff.