The ongoing X and Elon Musk Transgressions Thread

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yes that’s the one, thanks. I’m referring to page 24 therein.

To be clear #-3’s original post was that I think EVs was 1/3 emissions vs ICE and I’m still questioning that. Not that he’s wrong, EVs do appear to be better for the environment it’s just the benefit overstated. That, combined with considering Musk, who he is and what he stands for etc., to me we should just move along from Tesler altogether. I think #-3’s original point was kinda “don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater” kinda logic but to me I look at the big picture aggregate and it’s a bit like…… meh….

Has there been a study that both sides agree about the metrics and what is being measured?

The one thought I have is that comparing lithium mines to O/G extraction does not take into account that O/G is not 100% used for gasoline. Also, avoiding the oil sands, it seems like most O/G extraction is minimally invasive and able to be remediated (if the company actually does it, another topic) whereas a strip mine is not.

I am curious about the process and all of the inputs and would love to see a measured study on this.

[Fuzz]

I think PHEV's are a great option right now. So many people commute daily, and could do it all or mostly electric, and still be able to use the same vehicle for longer weekend trips. Now, for small vehicles I agree, but hardly anyone drives those anymore.

I think every pickup should be required to be hybrid or PHEV. EV trucks are still pretty useless for the use cases people say they need them for. And throwing in a 200kWh pack in just to accomplish that is silly. But if they are going to be used for commuting, they could at least be electric for that part of it. It also means you can use smaller engines designed to not need high torque, because you can get that when needed form the elctric engine. With smart engineering you aren't duplicating everything, and can use the engine for heat when needed to either to quickly warm the battery or cabin.

Range extenders are a great way to electrify larger vehicles, too.

[Fuzz]

Back on topic:





https://bsky.app/profile/johncusack..../3lkj6mml3sc2z

[Paulie Walnuts]

That hole seems way to big to fit Trump in

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Has there been a study that both sides agree about the metrics and what is being measured?



The one thought I have is that comparing lithium mines to O/G extraction does not take into account that O/G is not 100% used for gasoline. Also, avoiding the oil sands, it seems like most O/G extraction is minimally invasive and able to be remediated (if the company actually does it, another topic) whereas a strip mine is not.



I am curious about the process and all of the inputs and would love to see a measured study on this.

Lithium is a distraction here. The average EV has maybe 8kg of lithium, so you're looking at mining maybe 200bs of rock per car. The average ICE vehicle will burn 25,000 L of gasoline. That's a pretty big difference.

The real mining issue for EVs is nickel, though LiFePO4 batteries don't use many other minerals.

[Whynotnow]

There also apparently no limit to how many times the materials can be recycled. So while there will be some losses as the older cars end their life they become part of the supply chain.

[Mathgod]

nvm the joke didn't land

[jayswin]

I hate Trump and Musk but what a stupid video, lol.

[The Fonz]

Hard not to smile while watching the Tesla ticker. Down 5% so far today.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Still a long way to go before he gets margin called on the Twitter purchase (allegedly around $100/share), but if that were to happen that might cause Tesla to collapse. Which probably just means bitch boy Trump bails Tesla out, but forcing that to happen would be something.

[Fuzz]

It's still value like a meme stock. People say it is worth it because of the future value of the tech, but all I've seen is FSD that doesn't work and has been promised since 2016, a stupidly designed robotaxi that relies on that, and a robot that would also...rely on that. Perhaps one day investors will also realize this isn't working and then the stock gets to be valued like a car company with 5 outdated models run by Hitler.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

It's still right around how much it was when Trump got elected in November, so I doubt there's any sort of panic in Musk's camp at this point in time.

On April 18, 2024 -- less than a year ago -- Tesla stock was $149 which is a lot lower than the $235 it's trading for today.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well as we get closer to the next earnings call the stock will continue to drop as the numbers will no doubt be very grim. But if he can get some flashy promises he's guaranteed to not deliver on that earnings call (Cybertaxi and AI) the cultists will probably be able to prop the stock up enough

[nik-]

It's still got a long way to go before it even reaches the steady state it was in for the majority of the last year. If it can sink below $170, then hopefully we see real panic.

[CroFlames]

Seeing people on reddit call it the Wankpanzer and honestly that is the best one so far.

Must have been the British.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Has there been a study that both sides agree about the metrics and what is being measured?

The one thought I have is that comparing lithium mines to O/G extraction does not take into account that O/G is not 100% used for gasoline. Also, avoiding the oil sands, it seems like most O/G extraction is minimally invasive and able to be remediated (if the company actually does it, another topic) whereas a strip mine is not.

I am curious about the process and all of the inputs and would love to see a measured study on this.

Why would you avoid the oil sands? Less than half of that production is Mining. and only about 20% of the total reserve is accessible via mining. The majority of those reservoirs will be produced with SAGD, CSS or other drilled methods that are easily reclaimable and have very small footprints.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Seeing people on reddit call it the Wankpanzer and honestly that is the best one so far.

Must have been the British.

Deplorean is another good one.

[SutterBrother]

Swasticar I like.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Swasticar I like.

Swasticar for the cars, Wankpanzer for the truck.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Has there been a study that both sides agree about the metrics and what is being measured?

The one thought I have is that comparing lithium mines to O/G extraction does not take into account that O/G is not 100% used for gasoline. Also, avoiding the oil sands, it seems like most O/G extraction is minimally invasive and able to be remediated (if the company actually does it, another topic) whereas a strip mine is not.

I am curious about the process and all of the inputs and would love to see a measured study on this.

I posted several articles on the green house gas difference showing 3:1 in North America, and explained why it is better than that in most of Canada, and why it is likely cars sold today will be better than current projections, because of improvements in the grid over the life of the car.

I also tried to find articles on land use, but it was hard to find. So I turned to Chat GPT, and for what it is work Chat GPT claims the life time land Use of an ICEV is higher than the lifetime land use of an EV with 2 full battery lives used. I think for all of the open pit mining complaints... Land use is a good analog for measuring what those open pit mines actually mean in relation to O&G extraction.

Basically the information is out there, and it says EVs are better but not perfect. But better is better, and the arguments that we should stop pushing EVs are bad arguments (aside from maybe the ones about better deployment of mass transit)

*Also for those who will argue that hydrogen is better, the infrastructure technology basically does not exist to supply low emission hydrogen fuel at scale. The hydrogen on the market is pretty much as bad as gasoline.



And back on topic

Spoiler!