Euro 2008 - UEFA

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by Locke

You have to lay off the C. Ronaldo drumbeat.....,

Nah, he is a really good player and is probably the best player in the world right now. I hate his dives and he still does it a whole lot no matter what VFF says.

VFF, why the hate for Villa and Torres?

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wow. You clearly started following soccer, what? Last year?

You have to lay off the C. Ronaldo drumbeat....., do you even know any other players? I'm surprised you can even spell Zidane.

Yep, last year. You're right. That post was really too stupid to reply to, but whatever.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by Jagger

Nah, he is a really good player and is probably the best player in the world right now. I hate his dives and he still does it a whole lot no matter what VFF says.

VFF, why the hate for Villa and Torres?

It's more of a hate towards Spain, them being Portugal's neighbors and all. There is nothing about that team that I like, and the only reason I pointed Torres and Villa out was because i wanted to see them light up the Italians on Saturday.

I realize light up is a term more used for hockey, but you know what I mean.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

1) How did the Dutch do the honorable thing?

2) Would Italy have laid down? That's pretty biased language...

3) As well... how is it not in Holland's interest to have Italy go through?

4) Some of this blind Italy hate is wearing a little thin

5) Italy plays essentially the soccer equivalent of the Flames... frankly, I'm surprised so many Flames fans attack them on their playing style.

1) They didn't roll-over and let Romania win 1-0, even though it was in their best interest to do so.

2) You of all people should not talk about biased language. Ex. "the only team that can beat Italy, is Italy".

3) Simple. Italy is a top team in the world. Holland's chances are better without them around. ITA >>> ROM.

4) Blind Italy hate? It's eyes-wide-open, well-deserved hate. ITA plays the most cynical brand of football in the world. Corruption is rampant in Italian soccer. Blind Italy love is wearing thin.

5) The Flames don't constantly dive for penalties, or play for shoot-outs when they are over-matched. You lose all credibility when you deny that they do these things as deliberate strategy.

But what do I know?

The Crazy Corrupted World Of Italian Soccer:

http://www.squidoo.com/italiansoccer

Calcio, i.e. Italian football (soccer), is an open-air cageful of weirdos: political violence, conspiracy theories (all proven truthful!), superstition and crazy cults, bribery and corruption, illegal betting, fraudulent bankruptcy at all levels, monday morning coaching as a national religion.

Winning at All Costs: A Scandalous History of Italian Soccer (Paperback)
by John Foot (Author)
http://www.amazon.ca/Winning-All-Cos...3801649&sr=8-1

[Delthefunky]

Gooooooo Sverige!!!

[Sune76]

sweden vs russia today, and I am, real nervous

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Sune76

sweden vs russia today, and I am, real nervous

You better hope the team doesn't play as nervous as you!

[Sune76]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You better hope the team doesn't play as nervous as you!

yeah let's hope not. On a positive note, Ibrahimovic is starting for us.

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by Sune76

sweden vs russia today, and I am, real nervous

Don't be, there gonna pull this one off. We can just be glad Spain clobbered Russia so much in the first game so we have goal differential advantage. Though they only need a tie, I really hope they learned from the last 10 mins of the last game not to do that and play to win anyway.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

1) They didn't roll-over and let Romania win 1-0, even though it was in their best interest to do so.
Like I said, their best interest was keeping healthy, not losing momentum and staying capable of beating Sweden/Russia and Spain. That's exactly what Van Basten did and kudos to him, Holland are the clear favorites going into the knockout rounds largely due to his leadership. Lets face it, Italy is not likely beating them, and neither were France or Romania.

2) You of all people should not talk about biased language. Ex. "the only team that can beat Italy, is Italy".
Going into the tournament, before Cannavaro's injury, this was true. They were the best team, and beating them meant they made some serious mental errors... the first part was no longer as accurate, and the second part most definitely happened. The only reason Romania got a draw and the France game was even close was Italy's constant mental errors.

3) Simple. Italy is a top team in the world. Holland's chances are better without them around. ITA >>> ROM.
All that means is Holland would assuredly be playing Spain. Spain >= Italy at this time. Really, its pretty meaningless who got second when there's an opponent like that waiting.

4) Blind Italy hate? It's eyes-wide-open, well-deserved hate. ITA plays the most cynical brand of football in the world. Corruption is rampant in Italian soccer. Blind Italy love is wearing thin.
I've been very honest about Italy's chances here and had no problem boosting worthy teams. Italy plays a very tactical brand of football, some find it outstanding to watch be played properly, some find it like dental surgery... but they never play 11 behind the ball, and there's always offense, unlike the Greeks, amongst others not featured at Euro. As for corruption... Italy is a very funny beast. Corruption is somewhat tolerated... until one gets caught... and then the punishment is more severe than any other European or North American body... and yet the cycle continues. Its quite fascinating actually. Mine is definitely not blind love, if that's what you're trying to imply... its a love for that game, warts and all.

5) The Flames don't constantly dive for penalties, or play for shoot-outs when they are over-matched. You lose all credibility when you deny that they do these things as deliberate strategy.

Bull. The Flames constantly play defense to force an OT point against strong opponents... and there's nothing wrong with that. Some teams play with blind passion and don't do these things, but the tactical teams ALL do. The Flames have been known to dive, exagerrate, and flop too. We just overlook it cause they're our team.

But what do I know?

The Crazy Corrupted World Of Italian Soccer:

http://www.squidoo.com/italiansoccer

Calcio, i.e. Italian football (soccer), is an open-air cageful of weirdos: political violence, conspiracy theories (all proven truthful!), superstition and crazy cults, bribery and corruption, illegal betting, fraudulent bankruptcy at all levels, monday morning coaching as a national religion.

Winning at All Costs: A Scandalous History of Italian Soccer (Paperback)
by John Foot (Author)
http://www.amazon.ca/Winning-All-Cos...3801649&sr=8-1

I've read parts of that book... I've also read some very compelling Italian articles which echo the same thing. I'm not disputing it. However, I will dispute the notion that its Italy alone. Like I said, its very much a Janus mentality in Italy. However, all one has to do is look at Italy's neighbors, and you'll see similar types of corruption without that second facet that ruthlessly punishes it and cuts off its own nose to spite its face in the process. For example, it is widely known in Spain that Real Madrid cooks the books, influences referees and engages in questionable tactics (any other team doing what they are doing to Man U, and it would be tampering)... rather than punish them on suspicion as was the case in Calciopoli, they choose to overlook it rather than draw attention to their own issues and decimate their league. Italy knowingly crippled its own premier league (attendance dropped 25% that year, Juve was in B, AC, Lazio and Fiorentina were penalized to the point that they couldn't be competitive for the championship) on Article 1 violations (suspicion of unsportsmanlike conduct), rather than allow the aura of cheating to continue. Many people assumed that Juventus, AC Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were all guilty of actually fixing matches, but this is not what they were charged with. Juventus in particular was penalized for having the ability to coerce refs, the "Moggi system," despite the fact there was no evidence this was actually used. There was only one game in the 2004-2005 season with evidence of ref tampering, and it was a fairly meaningless game, I think it was Siena-Udinese. That ref was fired.

Germany recently had a referee scandal, and had some of the most imfamous cases of clear-cut scandal and match fixing (see: Arminia Bielefeld). If Mr. Foot wants an idea for a good sequel book, he should check out the Bundesliga... its a nightmare of financial problems and dodgy characters. England also has seen its share of scandal, but much of theirs is also ignored and not prosecuted like Italy has. Even FIFA has its share of scandals.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Sune76

yeah let's hope not. On a positive note, Ibrahimovic is starting for us.

I have to say, Zlatan has really progressed in this tournament... good on you guys.

[Sune76]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I have to say, Zlatan has really progressed in this tournament... good on you guys.

yeah this is probably the best he has played on the national team.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I've read parts of that book... I've also read some very compelling Italian articles which echo the same thing. I'm not disputing it. However, I will dispute the notion that its Italy alone. Like I said, its very much a Janus mentality in Italy. However, all one has to do is look at Italy's neighbors, and you'll see similar types of corruption without that second facet that ruthlessly punishes it and cuts off its own nose to spite its face in the process. For example, it is widely known in Spain that Real Madrid cooks the books, influences referees and engages in questionable tactics... rather than punish them on suspicion as was the case in Calciopoli, they choose to overlook it rather than draw attention to their own issues and decimate their league. Italy knowingly crippled its own premier league (attendance dropped 25% that year, Juve was in B, AC, Lazio and Fiorentina were penalized to the point that they couldn't be competitive for the championship) on Article 1 violations (suspicion of unsportsmanlike conduct), rather than allow the aura of cheating to continue. Many people assumed that Juventus, AC Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were all guilty of actually fixing matches, but this is not what they were charged with. Juventus in particular was penalized for having the ability to coerce refs, the "Moggi system," despite the fact there was no evidence this was actually used. There was only one game in the 2004-2005 season with evidence of ref tampering, and it was a fairly meaningless game, I think it was Siena-Udinese. That ref was fired.

Germany recently had a referee scandal, and had some of the most imfamous cases of clear-cut scandal and match fixing (see: Arminia Bielefeld). If Mr. Foot wants an idea for a good sequel book, he should check out the Bundesliga... its a nightmare of financial problems and dodgy characters. England also has seen its share of scandal, but much of theirs is also ignored and not prosecuted like Italy has. Even FIFA has its share of scandals.

Good takes.

I was just being sassy.

Good luck in the quarter finals.

[GirlySports]

I'd have to agree that Italy gets a bad rap for playing defensive. They don't purposely play defensive. They just happen to have a great defense. Some of their offensive play is quite a delight to watch. When was the last time you remember them playing a 0-0 draw?

The 0-0 draw in the 1998 QF against France was probably the only game that I remember Italy just sending 11 men behind the ball and defending. That was pretty pathetic.

I enjoy Italy's play, they actually score alot of nice goals.
12 goals in the last World Cup IIRC.
2004 was crap
5 goals in 4 matches in 2002
9 goals in 6 matches in 2000


-- Having said this, teams like Holland and Brazil are still prettier to watch.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

Good takes.

I was just being sassy.

Good luck in the quarter finals.

Hey, I always enjoy good football discourse, even if you were being sassy.

Hopefully Italy comes to life on the backs of its youth (Chiellini, De Rossi, Aquilani, Cassano), but I'm not holding my breath.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'd have to agree that Italy gets a bad rap for playing defensive. They don't purposely play defensive. They just happen to have a great defense. Some of their offensive play is quite a delight to watch. When was the last time you remember them playing a 0-0 draw?

.

2006 WC semi final vs Germany was goaless after 90 minutes, although, that was probably the best 0-0 90 minutes I have ever seen. So much drama and the intensity was unmatched.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

2006 WC semi final vs Germany was goaless after 90 minutes, although, that was probably the best 0-0 90 minutes I have ever seen. So much drama and the intensity was unmatched.

True. Italy really went for it at the end of the 2nd half and the entire overtime. At one point they threw on 4 strikers (Gilardino, Iaquinta, Totti and Del Piero).

And it was a defender that scored.. go figure

[Scrambler]

Poor start for Sweden, they aren't playing like they want to play the Dutch on Saturday

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

Poor start for Sweden, they aren't playing like they want to play the Dutch on Saturday

They look as nervous as you!

[Scrambler]

Better play towards the end of the half.... they need to tie first thing in the second half methinks.