The Blue Jays Thread: 2008 Season

[ricoFlame]

zaun is back...yipee...

[ShaolinFlame]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

zaun is back...yipee...

With the way Barajas is hitting, I don't know if this is such a good thing. Gibby loves to play Zaun regardless of how bad he is hitting. Not to mention his pea shooter behind the plate. Do love the guy though - I just hope that Gibby can handle making him sit on the bench more than usual (I know Greg can).

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by ShaolinFlame

With the way Barajas is hitting, I don't know if this is such a good thing. Gibby loves to play Zaun regardless of how bad he is hitting. Not to mention his pea shooter behind the plate. Do love the guy though - I just hope that Gibby can handle making him sit on the bench more than usual (I know Greg can).

i'm not a zaun guy. that's what i was getting at.

brewers have 4 homers so far tonight against the jays. up 5-0 in the bottom of the 8th. OUCH.

[Machiavelli]

Yup, the Jays with yet another garbage showing.

When is someone going to be held accountable for this?

Edit: Make that 5 homers now. Jays down 7-0.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Yup, the Jays with yet another garbage showing.

When is someone going to be held accountable for this?

Edit: Make that 5 homers now. Jays down 7-0.

yikes. 5 bombs. not ideal.

[JayP]

Someone needs to go. I really don't care who at this point, but clearly the Gibbons/Riccardi combo isn't leading the Jays anywhere.

Gibbons should go because he simply can't get what should be a decent hitting club to do anything the past two years.

Riccardi clearly isn't doing his job if he thinks the Jays are good enough right now. He said as much after picking up journeymen in Wilkerson and Mench. If he's not still actively looking for ways to improve this club then we need a GM who will.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by JayP

Someone needs to go. I really don't care who at this point, but clearly the Gibbons/Riccardi combo isn't leading the Jays anywhere.

Gibbons should go because he simply can't get what should be a decent hitting club to do anything the past two years.

Riccardi clearly isn't doing his job if he thinks the Jays are good enough right now. He said as much after picking up journeymen in Wilkerson and Mench. If he's not still actively looking for ways to improve this club then we need a GM who will.

I agree, and I'll add more.

Gibbons should be fired for his refusal to play small ball with a relatively small and quick lineup. Secondly, the use of his relievers as one batter specialists are irritating to watch. A guy like Carlson should be facing 6 batters on some nights. Instead he blows away one batter in 3, 4, 5 pitches, and he's done for the night. Blows my mind.

Riccardi should have been given the boot years back. This year, on paper, I'll say his team is more than good enough to contend for the WS, but how a team bats like this is beyond comprehension. I don't think anyone could have predicted this and this is the only time I'll defend him because they're collectively underachieving bigtime, and it's hard to say it's his fault when their this solid on paper. Riccardi should have been shown the door years back though, for signing injury prone players, them getting consistently injured, then him using the ridiculous excuse that injuries played a big part and they couldn't help it. YOU IDIOT, YOU SIGNED INJURY PRONE PLAYERS, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? How the media never jumped on the guy is beyond me. Another reason he should have been dealt years back: his hard on for 3rd rate ex-A's players. Enough of that. Lastly, he can't handle controversy, and just gets rid of it ie: Thomas, Lilly, coaches. Every one of them scapegoats (although some were deserved). I hope they give this guy the boot in a humiliating way. Can't stand the bum.

[Machiavelli]

Another HR against the Jays to make it 6 straight by Milwaukee for the only scoring by either team for the series so far.

So yeah, game most likely over seeing as the Jays suck.

*Note: it is only 1-0 right now. That is how confident I am in the Jays' ability to come from behind.

[moon]

Originally Posted by fleury

Riccardi should have been given the boot years back. This year, on paper, I'll say his team is more than good enough to contend for the WS, but how a team bats like this is beyond comprehension. I don't think anyone could have predicted this and this is the only time I'll defend him because they're collectively underachieving bigtime, and it's hard to say it's his fault when their this solid on paper.

Outside of Blue Jays fans and Toronto homer media types was there a lot of people who thought the Blue Jays should contend for the WS?

I know a lot of people had them finishing as low as 4th in the East this year.

Also, is the hitting that much of a surprise? Who is really having that bad a year? A few guys aren't matching career numbers but I am not sure there is one guy that is really surprising most objective fans with his poor hitting.

Also, the Jays are overachieving if anything when it comes to pitching. Litche is getting much better results than his pitching warrants, Marcum is pitching better than anyone could have expected and the others are also pitching at least as expected if not better.

I think that Riccardi should go for his overall body of work and poor signings/trades but I am not sure that the Jays are underachieving or should be contending for anything this year based on the team that they have on paper.

[FlamesKickAss]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Another HR against the Jays to make it 6 straight by Milwaukee for the only scoring by either team for the series so far.

So yeah, game most likely over seeing as the Jays suck.

*Note: it is only 1-0 right now. That is how confident I am in the Jays' ability to come from behind.

well they tied it!!

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

well they tied it!!

I know. When they had the base hit I had to check the scoreboard to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.

[ShaolinFlame]

Greg Zaun no less.

And as I type, 2-1 Milwaukee.

[calculoso]

Now 5-4 Milwaukee after Zaun's HR (and 3rd RBI of the game).

Too bad Overbay grounded into a double play right before it.

[zukes]

Another day, another loss. This is going to be a long summer before the NFL and NHL start up.

I want Riccardi fired. If Gibbons goes to, so be it, but JP should be gone first. get something for Burnett and ask around the room who else wants out. If anyone even contemplates it, trade their ass. This team does not look interested. Get guys who want to play in Toronto, want to be a Blue Jay. This is getting ridiculous.

[JayP]

Also, is the hitting that much of a surprise? Who is really having that bad a year? A few guys aren't matching career numbers but I am not sure there is one guy that is really surprising most objective fans with his poor hitting.

Nearly every Jay is well below his career numbers. Here's an OPS comparison:

Player - 2008 OPS - Career OPS
Wells - .788 - .808
Rios - .696 - .780 (but a .850+ OPS minimum was expected as his breakout the past two years)
Rolen - .802 - .876
Hill - .685 - .748
Overbay - .754 - .810
Stairs - .744 - .843
Wilkerson - .690 - .798
Stewart - .631 - .790
Mench - .629 - .788
Scutaro - .679 - .700
Barajas - .821 - .705
Zaun - .784 - .734
Eckstein - .721 - .714

Bolded are the only two guys who are significantly above their career numbers. Italicized are the 8 guys significantly below their career numbers (which includes all of our core hitters except for Wells who is still below his career OPS).

And I'm sure all objective fans would be surprised by Rios, Hill, and Overbay's numbers. Stairs too probably, but you could easily make an argument that last year was an exception.

Based off of win shares, Rios has already probably cost the Jays between 3-4 wins with his bat (comparing his stats to Morneau's who are where Rios should be around). The Jays would be in an entirely different position if just one of their big hitters was actually earning their pay (and not even exceeding expectations).

[Sylvanfan]

I have to say that even I'm surprised by the lack of punch in that lineup. Is there anyone on the team slugging around .500 right now? The corner infielders and outfielders in particular are just not getting it done on this team power wise. Those are positions where you expect 20+ home runs and .500 slugging.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I have to say that even I'm surprised by the lack of punch in that lineup. Is there anyone on the team slugging around .500 right now? The corner infielders and outfielders in particular are just not getting it done on this team power wise. Those are positions where you expect 20+ home runs and .500 slugging.

Barajas is the closest at .474. Wells is the only other guy above .450 at .453. That's pathetic.

Here's a pretty hilarious recap of JP on a local show in Toronto ripping Adam Dunn: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...adio-show.aspx

The Jays really couldn't use a .909 OPS bat right now. Dunn might strikeout a lot, but that's a welcome change of pace from Overbay's and Rio's GIDPs.

[Machiavelli]

Well, they're already down 2-0 in the first inning of some afternoon action.

The Jays are so terrible right now. I don't understand how all the hitting in May could vanish, just like that. Maybe they were just playing over their heads.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Well, they're already down 2-0 in the first inning of some afternoon action.

The Jays are so terrible right now. I don't understand how all the hitting in May could vanish, just like that. Maybe they were just playing over their heads.

The thing is that they weren't even hitting well. They were only averaging about 4 runs a game. It just seemed like an offensive outburst compared to the garbage we've been treated to in April and June.

2-0 after 1 - I mind as well close the gamecast at this point. I mean, how can the Jays be expected to hit off of David Bush and his 5.63 ERA?

[JayP]

Pathetic. 6-0. Burnett is putting on a clinic.