Who did you vote for? - Official Election Results Thread

[Bobblehead]

I wish this debate could be split into its own thread. I'm sure there are a huge number of people who look at the title of the thread, then at how many pages the thread has grown to, and don't even bother reading any of it. Which is a shame because this is currently a pretty good discussion that I'm sure a lot more people would be interested in reading.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

Of course there will always be exceptions of great people doing it for the love of whatever. But I disagree that people who work in the civil service, do it for altruistic reasons (other than some exceptions of course). If they are like me or the people I used to work with, they work in the civil service because it was the first job that they were offered, they work there because they are scared to leave, they love the extra vacation time, they love that they can leave at 4:30 and not have to worry about work, they work there because they may not be employable elsewhere, they work there because clerical staff get paid better in the civil service, they work there because the benefits are good and there is a secure and decent pension plan, they work there because it is hard to get fired, they work there because if they get sick they will be treated pretty damn well in comparison.
.

Or maybe it's because deep down inside, they like socialism and don't even realize it.... because what you describe sounds very socialist in nature.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

And I agree that right wingers are the more meat and potatoes type person. They're no less intelligent than a left leaning individual, but I'd say they tend to be more entrepreneurial, and a little more individualistic in nature. They don't want to share wealth that they built on their own with someone who thinks they "deserve" it because of their education.

I don't even think that most right wingers "don't want to share wealth." I'm a right-winger, and I'd gladly share wealth, I just don't think it a good idea for the government to be doing the "sharing."

[Bobblehead]

The last week, the media coverage seemed to imply to me that the PCs would lose seats. In the end that didn't happen.

Were the media playing up weakness in PC support to try and make the election more interesting than it really was?
Were the opposition trying to play up the "softness" in order to make it look like they had a chance (and perhaps getting the media to buy into the idea)?
Did the Wildrose and Alberta Federation of Labour TV ads attacking Stelmach backfire?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

So you are one of the two or three. Aren't a you a forest ranger or something?

I'm an environmental consultant in the oil and gas industry actually (Petro-Canada being the main client I work for), and it's one of the largest corporations in Canada and the world for that matter. The corporate atmosphere outweighs the tree-hugger culture in this setting I would say.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by fotze

I'm sorry but all those reasons are just as selfish as wanting to work somewhere for higher pay. Ya, there are 2 or 3 people that work there for completely unselfish reasons but, I am talking about the people who work there for selfish reasons while telling the rest of the world they work there for selfless reasons, people like me.

I can't argue that people don't like their benefits, it's quite well-known that people who work in the civil service are more inclined to become "lifers", but that again, is a lifestyle choice. They aren't trapped by any means, especially when, as someone mentioned earlier, you can go out to the rigs, make a six-figure income with no education, and still have money left over for Iron Maiden tickets. Some people choose to have that which would normally be covered by an individual, such as RRSP's, dental, medical, et al, be covered by the government instead. Infact, I'd say having these social mechanisms in place help people along who would otherwise not make the right investment choices.

It is not selfish to want your government to provide the same services that you would eventually have to provide otherwise for yourself. When you think about it, this is the crux of public vs. private healthcare, and no one in this country, including Alberta, is saying to go completely to the right and ditch universal health care, which is a staple of a social democracy.

Alberta doesn't allow for people becoming scared to leave the civil service; there are plenty of opportunities to do great things, esepcially with the labour shortage in full swing. I can see that arguement made in Halifax or Quebec, but not here.

Sorry, just one more thing - all I have to do is look to countries like Norway and Sweden to provide great examples of socialist democracies that work well. Infact, I believe Norway has had a higher Human Development Index rating than Canada this year, and a few times in previous years too. Sweden and Finland are not far behind.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I don't even think that most right wingers "don't want to share wealth." I'm a right-winger, and I'd gladly share wealth, I just don't think it a good idea for the government to be doing the "sharing."

I always find it funny nowadays when people say stuff like this. Like corporations don't have a lot of bagage themselves.
Government is riddled with problems, but they aren't legally required to make more money for share holders which sets an agenda from the outset.
I don't remember government types going to jail for corruption and ripping off pension plans however incompetant they may be.
Don't let the government spend your money is an ingenius ploy of the right. Whether you want a mix or not, most would probably agree that we wouldn't like US style health care. And Plenty of people I know rave about government auto insurance in BC over the private rates etc. we pay (in Alberta).
There's no perfect system.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

When I went to bed last night, I though my riding had turned out Identical to the way it did last time - with Shiraz Shariff winning another narrow victory. I wake up today and find out he lost by less than 100 votes.

Never has there been a better time to quote the line:

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The last week, the media coverage seemed to imply to me that the PCs would lose seats. In the end that didn't happen.

Were the media playing up weakness in PC support to try and make the election more interesting than it really was?
Were the opposition trying to play up the "softness" in order to make it look like they had a chance (and perhaps getting the media to buy into the idea)?
Did the Wildrose and Alberta Federation of Labour TV ads attacking Stelmach backfire?

The media, especially CBC is very liberal or left wing. Of course they were going to portray things in a different light. I almost fell for it as well. Thinking that the large influx of new Albertans from other left leaning parts of Canada would vote for the Liberals or NDP. One has to wonder if these new Albertans in fact lean to the right?

[edn88]

You missing the category - did not vote.

I normally vote, but did not want to endorse Eddie and could not bring my self to vote of NDP or Liberals.

[troutman]

Downtown Edmonton and Downtown Calgary are red. The rest of the province is blue.

Why are the downtown ridings different? More young people, urban bohemians, artists, gays, students, new arrivals to Alberta?

[photon]

Originally Posted by edn88

You missing the category - did not vote.

I normally vote, but did not want to endorse Eddie and could not bring my self to vote of NDP or Liberals.

Didn't miss it, left it out on purpose. Everyone should vote, even if it's to pick the lesser of all available evils.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

Didn't you in the past though? Maybe I'm thinking of another poster. You made it sound like you work for the gov't.

I bet that is a tough position, I've found the least environmental people can be environmental consultants working for oil companies. Must be tough sometimes if you really are environmental leaning.

I used to work for the government in research. I left because I could make more in the private sector.

I'd say yeah, that not everyone in this business is not an environmental person. You have to find some middle ground somewhere between personal convictions and individual pursuit. This field does provide an opportunity for both.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Oh I know, believe me. It's like kicking a dead horse; it ain't going to move.

But then again, it's not about convincing the stubborn; it's about motivating the apathetic. Alot of people didn't bother to vote because they just knew the Conservatives would get re-elected. That is the real curse in this election.

Yeah, but if the current bothered them that much they would come out and vote. A voter staying home is endorsment of the status quo.

As far as PC voters being stubborn, it could just be that their ranks consist of people who have lived in many places and times where social programs were more wide-spread but didn't achieve the 'good' to the extent that they were promised. It's the beauty of perspective = everybody has one.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I always find it funny nowadays when people say stuff like this. Like corporations don't have a lot of bagage themselves.
Government is riddled with problems, but they aren't legally required to make more money for share holders which sets an agenda from the outset.
I don't remember government types going to jail for corruption and ripping off pension plans however incompetant they may be.
Don't let the government spend your money is an ingenius ploy of the right. Whether you want a mix or not, most would probably agree that we wouldn't like US style health care. And Plenty of people I know rave about government auto insurance in BC over the private rates etc. we pay (in Alberta).
There's no perfect system.

No, of course not. Leaving the sharing in the hands of corporations is just as bad. At least with a government, the people can get rid of them if they screw something up. The best solution is for people to be doing the sharing at the individual level, unfortunately, individualism gets in the way of that -- at least working like it could. Everyone just looks out for themselves.

I definately don't want the government to get out of everything. I don't mind the government spending my money where that money is going to be well spent. There's a lot of things that they do well (not that there isn't room for improvement). Public health care is a great, great thing.

Plenty of people rave about their public auto insurance but that's not the whole picture. I'm sure they aren't raving about their income taxes. And yesm thetwo are somewhat connected. Overall, the cost is lower here.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Plenty of people rave about their public auto insurance but that's not the whole picture. I'm sure they aren't raving about their income taxes. And yesm thetwo are somewhat connected. Overall, the cost is lower here.

Doesn't public auto insurance protect bad drivers from high rates? Talking to plenty of people who have moved from Saskatchewan to Alberta over the years. They tell me with their good driving records. Auto insurance is cheaper in Alberta than Saskatchewan.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

The media, especially CBC is very liberal or left wing. Of course they were going to portray things in a different light. I almost fell for it as well. Thinking that the large influx of new Albertans from other left leaning parts of Canada would vote for the Liberals or NDP. One has to wonder if these new Albertans in fact lean to the right?

Actually, I wasn't getting the impression of strength for Liberals or NDP. Far from it. It looked to me like a large number of undecided voters.

But then I don't watch CBC news.

If anything, it looked like WAP was going to grow. I didn't expect them to be wiped off the political map.

Maybe it was just me hoping for a larger opposition voice. I really have a lot of confidence another party could rule, but I was hoping for a bigger opposition so that there would be someone to hold the PCs accountable for the next term.

[CaramonLS]

I thought the Liberals ran a terrible campaign - was there even a single commerical which ran about Kevin Taft?

The only commericals that ran that I can recall were Stemachs and the "no plan for Alberta" ones, which advertised no alternative. I bet over half of Albertans had no idea who Taft even was and probably still don't.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I thought the Liberals ran a terrible campaign - was there even a single commerical which ran about Kevin Taft?

The only commericals that ran that I can recall were Stemachs and the "no plan for Alberta" ones, which advertised no alternative. I bet over half of Albertans had no idea who Taft even was and probably still don't.

Good point.

I also recall the Hinmann ads, but other than that and the other 2 you mentioned, I can't think of anyone else with ads.

The only time you saw Taft was when he was in news coverage. And since many people don't seem to watch local news anymore (I don't knwo that for a fact, that just seems to be an impression I get) people wouldn't have a clue about him.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is that the difference between Liberals and Conservatives in a nutshell? What is best for the most vs. what is best for me.

I don't know if I'd make that step. I just believe that what each person believes is best for most depends on their definition/perception of what kind of people fit in the 'most' category. I think that can differ by their political afiliation. I'd be interested in hearing what each political party leader would identify as a 'typical Albertan' and contrast that with the demographics of those who actually voted for each party.

I have a hard time believing that Liberal voters voted for them because the Liberals best suited 'average Alberta.' The Alberta Liberal Party has been dominated and traditionally supported by civil servants, teachers, University Professors and health care workers. Oddly enough their platform probably suits employees of such institutions the best and I'd lump them in with the self-interested voters just as much as any other party.