[Trade] Eichel + 3rd to Vegas for Tuch, Krebs, 1st, 3rd

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I think some of these reporters (Weekes/MacFarlane) need to apologize for their lazy reporting and should be seriously questioning the credibility of their "sources".

Pretty unacceptable and irresponsible to be putting those rumours out there that clearly had no traction. Not only does it suck for the fans, but it's unfair to the players too. What a circus of Mickey Mouse reporting.

Would actually like to hear some response from Weekes. Multiple insiders and both GMs have claimed that was completely false. What does weekes have to say about that? It looks really bad on him that either he was used or he did not check his sources.


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[Monahammer]

The tanking discussion is extremely premature, but I think it is emblematic of the fear we as fans feel about losing Johnny and Tkachuk for nothing over the next 2 seasons.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Wow, solid deal for Vegas. Great move by them. Eichel is a stud and a top 5 center in the league when healthy.

Tuch is injured so that doesn’t even hurt them this year until Eichel comes back.

Top 5 you say? My top 4 are:
Mackinnon
Barkov
McDavid
Matthews

Then a pretty significant drop off with a bunch of guys who are elite but below those listed above: Zibanejad, couturier, Crosby, Tavares, Malkin, Kuznetsov, Point, Bergeron, Barzal.

Eichel falls into the second group to me, though I could see the argument for top 5, it would be an argument for 5th best IMO.

+there is no such thing as a healthy Eichel right now.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Inferno

When your team absolutely sucks then sure it's ok to be fine with bottoming out. But wanting them to lose when they don't absolutely suck and expecting them to deliberately lose is another thing.

People here were bitching and moaning last season because the team who was 6 points out of a playoff spot was still trying to pass Montreal. Not 16, not 26, 6! That's absolutely ridiculous.

The Spurs lost deliberately for Duncan. They were a perennial playoff contender who kept their star out eith a dubious injury for one year to tank. They won 4 championships out of that.

It's pro sports.

Being embarassed by tank talk is hilariously uppity.

The Oilers fans this board makes so much fun of are enjoying their poorly constructed team still be ahead of our incredible start in the standings. Could they use depth? Yeah. Which is a lot easier than acquiring the pieces that give them an unstoppable PP. But I'm sure we can make fun of them for playing their stars 25+ minutes while we have a 13M fourth line.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

We don’t know that Tkachuk was offered. Pure speculation. It may have been the ask. If I’m Treliving, I’m telling Tkachuk, “Buffalo asked for you in return for Eichel. I said no. Now go out there and show them why I said no.”

I thought there was a tweet, maybe it was just a post on CP, but Tkachuk was asked for by Buffalo and that was denied. So, I'm sure Tre and Tkachuk have had some sort of conversation like what you envision.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Someone made this point earlier, but this is a failure on Tre directly. Part of his job needs to be a salesman of our players. He clearly has very little rapport or credibility league wide as we are constantly seemingly undervalued in trade situations. That or our prospects are not good, which stats seem to indicate is not the case, but history would indicate is the more likely scenario.

How do you know this??
What inside scoop do you have?
You did notice only one team ended up with him with over thirty teams? Do you think no one had a better prospect?? That is what your implying.

Oh and a salesman is just that at the end of the day and I eat salesman for effin breakfast so that whole line with them is useless on me and should be to other gm’s worth a grain of salt. Considering the price only two conclusions are evident. They wanted Krebs plain and simple or had no interest in our players for a plethora of reasons. You know little things like age, cap, contract length. All things Brad could have “ sold “ the sabres on.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Someone made this point earlier, but this is a failure on Tre directly. Part of his job needs to be a salesman of our players. He clearly has very little rapport or credibility league wide as we are constantly seemingly undervalued in trade situations. That or our prospects are not good, which stats seem to indicate is not the case, but history would indicate is the more likely scenario.

I’m pretty sure that any competent GM will make their own evaluation of what potential components of a trade are worth rather than listening to another GM’s sales pitch. Of course, that’s assuming that you’re negotiating with a competent GM.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Someone made this point earlier, but this is a failure on Tre directly. Part of his job needs to be a salesman of our players. He clearly has very little rapport or credibility league wide as we are constantly seemingly undervalued in trade situations. That or our prospects are not good, which stats seem to indicate is not the case, but history would indicate is the more likely scenario.

None of what you are saying should is "clearly".
It's just your view because you've stated the GM is garbage. As is your right. But you are making big leaps.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by CroCop

Kevin Weekes really sewered us here. Throwing Tkachuks name out there will definitely have a negative effect. The way Matthew went after Muzzingate proves he doesn’t have mental fortitude to block personal stuff out and it clearly affected his performance. I’m afraid how he will perform for the Flames now that his name was thrown out there wether it was true or not.

Actually, no.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Someone made this point earlier, but this is a failure on Tre directly. Part of his job needs to be a salesman of our players. He clearly has very little rapport or credibility league wide as we are constantly seemingly undervalued in trade situations. That or our prospects are not good, which stats seem to indicate is not the case, but history would indicate is the more likely scenario.

Nah, every team has pro scouts. Trying to be a used car salesman to push players that a team doesn't really want doesn't work for hockey trades.

How do you "sell" Tkachuk's contract situation? How do you sell Monahan versus Tuch when a fairer comparable age, stats and upside-wise is Mangiapane (only Mangiapane is on an expiring contract)?

[InternationalVillager]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1456297248409587715

For those that are trashing our prospects....

[TheIronMaiden]

The Flaames are just waiting for MacKinnon to go on the market I guess.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The tanking discussion is extremely premature, but I think it is emblematic of the fear we as fans feel about losing Johnny and Tkachuk for nothing over the next 2 seasons.

I think it's also just due to history.

We as a fanbase won't really believe in this team until they do something in the playoffs. We've seen the team have strong regular seasons before only to get obliterated in the playoffs, we've also seen the team go on hot streaks to just sneak into the playoffs only to get obliterated in the playoffs.

This start to the season is what it is - it's 9 good games. That means nothing in the face of the previous 7 years (not even looking at the previous 30 years...)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

I’m pretty sure that any competent GM will make their own evaluation of what potential components of a trade are worth rather than listening to another GM’s sales pitch. Of course, that’s assuming that you’re negotiating with a competent GM.

Of course they do. They have books on all players in the league.
But it doesn't fit the narrative that BT should have someone been able to 'convince' Adams to take his deal.

[greyshep]

Very disappointed that Tre couldnt push a bit harder to make this deal. With the Johnny and Tkachuk situations brewing off to the side we are in a pretty terrible spot IMO.

Really frustrated by the seeming unwillingness to take any risk.

Feels like the Flames have adopted the prevent defense used in football, all it usually does is prevent you from winning. Flames mgt basically playing "not to lose".

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

His draft slot doesn't represent his value. He dropped in the draft because he had an Achilles injury. Absent that he would have gone much higher and has progressed well since being drafted.
In a re-draft he goes much higher. Downside is a strong second line player, upside is a front line player.
He's a good prospect.

How much better than Zary is he though - very similar production at same points of their careers in the same league.



Based on Bader's model Zary actually has a better chance of being a star at this point.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Buff

I thought there was a tweet, maybe it was just a post on CP, but Tkachuk was asked for by Buffalo and that was denied. So, I'm sure Tre and Tkachuk have had some sort of conversation like what you envision.

The fact that Strickland talked to the Tkachuks and they said he was not part of any offer pretty much confirms this. There's only one way they'd know that - if Treliving told them.

Of course I suppose Treliving could have offered Tkachuk and Buffalo said "not on that contract" and then he tells the Tkachuks "no Matt isn't on the table".

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're the one being embarassing with your holier-than-thou nonsense.

Literally every pro sports fanbase in North America has been perfectly on board with their team bottoming out to acquire the Mario Lemieux, Shaquille O'Neal, Eric Lindros, Tim Duncan, Chris Pronger, LeBron James, Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Connor McDavid, Auston Matthews, Nathan MacKinnon, Jack Eichel type franchise players. It doesn't always work out, but none of those fanbases were losing sleep over a few down years.

There's nothing special or more respectable about you that you'd rather make the playoffs and get bounced than acquire Connor Bedard and build a contender.

I'm sorry that you'd rather cheer for a win in November than cheer for a win in June, but that doesn't make you a superior Flames fan.

The Flames should be looking at Johnny's blistering hot pace and get the best value for him NOW. That way two years from now they aren't kicking themselves for letting him walk for nothing or worse, signing him to a 12M UFA deal. But all you want are wins today.

Agreed, it's price that North American pro sports demands. Does it work every time? Of course not. Neither does waiting for an Eichel or Thornton to be available by trade. In fact, I would say that is much more rare.

There is barely a successful team in any of the North American sports leagues that didn't find success through building up from the bottom. It's the cost of doing business and I doubt any of them feel any shame for it. I am sure that Pittsburgh, Washington, Tampa, Chicago, etc... have no trouble sleeping for having to cheer a building team over one that is in continual maintenance mode to maintain average results.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How much better than Zary is he though - very similar production at same points of their careers in the same league.

Based on Bader's model Zary actually has a better chance of being a star at this point.

Buffalo is clearly not a big NHLe organization when it comes to drafting. Selecting Jack Quinn ahead of Marco Rossi or Cole Perfetti in 2020 really hammers that home.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How much better than Zary is he though - very similar production at same points of their careers in the same league.

Based on Bader's model Zary actually has a better chance of being a star at this point.

I don't disagree. But I'm not Buffalo. Or really, any other analyst who all seem to think very highly of Krebs.