[PST] Stanley Cup Final: Montreal Canadiens vs. Tampa Bay Lightning---Bolts win the Cup 4-1

[Enoch Root]

A possible solution for this could be to say that teams have to dress a lineup on any given night that is under the cap.

There are going to be injuries. And guys are going to return from injury during the playoffs. Fine. But if you want to dress them, you have to sit someone else.

You get $81.5M to play with - knock yourselves out.

That would add some intriguing decisions and strategy to the playoffs. And it would level the playing field.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Have there been any other Cup winners this far over the cap? Chicago did something similar but how much did they go over?

The Kings must have been close when they acquired Gaborik at the deadline

[Snuffleupagus]

If Tampa had to ice a roster under the cap they would have to sit Gourde and play shorthanded or sit Point and replace him with say Smith. Being allowed to ice $5m over the cap is a massive advantage.

[Erick Estrada]

Not sure why we are still discussing the Lightning's cap hit. It's allowed by the league. I couldn't care the least about the lighting being over the cap by $18 million as it's as silly as getting upset about politicians collecting large pensions when they are simply taking what is allowed. Quite frankly I'm more upset that organizations like the Lightning can build an elite team from top to bottom solely from the draft while the Flames continue to wallow in mediocrity for what seems like eternity.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not sure why we are still discussing the Lightning's cap hit. It's allowed by the league. I couldn't care the least about the lighting being over the cap by $18 million as it's as silly as getting upset about politicians collecting large pensions when they are simply taking what is allowed. Quite frankly I'm more upset that organizations like the Lightning can build an elite team from top to bottom solely from the draft while the Flames continue to wallow in mediocrity for what seems like eternity.

It’s allowed but the question is should it?

And yeah, they are not winning by accident. They are top at drafting and the Flames problems are not just drafting. Treliving has done a pretty good job….at messing up.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

If Tampa had to ice a roster under the cap they would have to sit Gourde and play shorthanded or sit Point and replace him with say Smith. Being allowed to ice $5m over the cap is a massive advantage.

They could probably just sit Johnson and wouldn’t have traded for Savard.

Even then if they don’t dress those two that’s $9.25M right there and they’d be under the cap.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They could probably just sit Johnson and wouldn’t have traded for Savard.

Even then if they don’t dress those two that’s $9.25M right there and they’d be under the cap.

Yeah. That’s the point. Those are two players that have had an impact on this Stanley cup run that would not be there if they had to be cap compliant.


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[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Yeah. That’s the point. Those are two players that have had an impact on this Stanley cup run that wood not be PP1


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Based on TOI that’s their 11th forward and 6th dman.

I’m not sure replacing Johnson with Joseph and Savard with Schenn really makes a difference on the outcome of these games.

Schenn already replaced Savard for a couple games and Tampa didn’t miss a beat.

[Flame On]

People trying to nitpick and rulebook me about Tampa, but I just don't think it's in the spirit of the game and nor are we likely to ever see a situation like this again. Meaning they will definitely be getting a mental "asterisk" for this Cup win in my mind.
It's fairly sickening too, the spin and damage control the NHL is laying out especially for Kucherov.
Also it's the Bolts, I hate them, it's not it takes much for me to be convinced of their Dbaggery.

[djsFlames]

Puck Tampa Bay 3000.

It's fitting that all their wins come with asterisks.

[MegaErtz]

Why can't Canadian teams win the Stanley Cup? This will be twenty-seven seasons in a row that an American team has won it. I'm very disappointed that this Canadiens team is the best that Canada could come up with, they're totally outclassed by Tampa Bay.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Why can't Canadian teams win the Stanley Cup? This will be twenty-seven seasons in a row that an American team has won it. I'm very disappointed that this Canadiens team is the best that Canada could come up with, they're totally outclassed by Tampa Bay.

Personally, I don't care.

Unless the Flames are hoisting the Stanley Cup, then I will be content with an eternity of never seeing it in the hands of a Canadian team.

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[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Why can't Canadian teams win the Stanley Cup? This will be twenty-seven seasons in a row that an American team has won it. I'm very disappointed that this Canadiens team is the best that Canada could come up with, they're totally outclassed by Tampa Bay.

Where to start....

First, the Canadiens are a huge underdog and upset all of the best Canadian teams.

Second, there are a lot of reasons why the US teams are favoured to win the Cup on an annual basis. Math, to start.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Have there been any other Cup winners this far over the cap? Chicago did something similar but how much did they go over?

If Chicago was at the cap before Kane got hurt (which I suspect they were), IIRC the three players they acquired matched Kane’s salary. So they’d have been over by Kane’s salary when he came back.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Why can't Canadian teams win the Stanley Cup? This will be twenty-seven seasons in a row that an American team has won it. I'm very disappointed that this Canadiens team is the best that Canada could come up with, they're totally outclassed by Tampa Bay.

Well right out of the gate there are only 7 Canadian teams out of 31, so it's immediately a numbers game.

Then the next hurdle is that many of those 7 CDN teams are not very desirable destinations for most players due to climate, privacy/anonymity concerns, etc. I'd say Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver can be desirable for certain players as long as those players don't mind living in a fish bowl, but Winnipeg/Ottawa/Calgary/Edmonton are likely very low on the vast majority of players list of desired locations to play.

If it was me, I'd way rather play in Florida or some sunny southern destination than an ice cold Canadian city, and that's not even taking into account being in the spot light all the time. I'd way rather be able to go out for supper and have nobody recognize me.

I'd also say that impatience plays a factor as well. Too many CDN teams feel the pressure to make win now moves instead of building a team properly and as a result waste too much precious cap space and don't hang onto nearly enough draft picks that have turned into the life blood of successful teams in the cap world.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

That's fine but during playoff games teams shouldn't be allowed to ice a team over the $81.5m cap, Tampa iced a lineup worth $86,503,000

As I pointed out, half the league is over the $81.5m cap and needed LTIR space to remain compliant. This is not a problem unique to Tampa Bay.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Why can't Canadian teams win the Stanley Cup? This will be twenty-seven seasons in a row that an American team has won it. I'm very disappointed that this Canadiens team is the best that Canada could come up with, they're totally outclassed by Tampa Bay.

Canadians are a risk-averse people compared to Americans – an old and notorious observation. If you look at the Canadians who are rich enough to own NHL teams, most of them got rich by building up oligopolies in mature markets – which is a way of reducing risk at the expense of the consumer. Equally rich Americans often get rich by inventing things and developing new markets – which requires taking risks, and big ones.

Canadian owners are obsessed with not losing, to the point of hardly caring whether they actually win. They are scared to death of doing proper rebuilds because it involves short-term losses without a guarantee of long-term gains. American owners are much more inclined to roll the dice. They often crap out, but they recognize that you will never win if you don't play.

[MegaErtz]

Since the Habs won the Cup in 1993, these are the seasons, total amount of teams in the league each season, with the number on Canadian teams in the league as the third number:

1993-94 26 8
1994-95 26 8 - Nordiques moved to Denver after this season
1995-96 26 7 - Jets moved to Phoenix after this season
1996-97 26 6
1997-98 26 6
1998-99 27 6
1999-00 28 6
2000-01 30 6
2001-02 30 6
2002-03 30 6
2003-04 30 6
2004-05 lockout
2005-06 30 6
2006-07 30 6
2007-08 30 6
2008-09 30 6
2009-10 30 6
2010-11 30 6
2011-12 30 7 - Atlanta relocated to Winnipeg before this season started
2012-13 30 7
2013-14 30 7
2014-15 30 7
2015-16 30 7 - no Canadian teams even made the playoffs this year
2016-17 30 7
2017-18 31 7
2018-19 31 7
2019-20 31 7
2020-21 31 7

So there have been 789 total entrants since the Stanley Cup was last won by a Canadian franchise. 177 of those entrants were Canadian, and assuming that Tampa Bay close out the Habs in the next four games, an American franchise has won for twenty-eight straight seasons.

177/789 is 22.43%, meaning that all things being equal, you'd expect a Canadian team to have won the Cup 22.43% of the time, or about 6.28 Cups in total.

Including Seattle joining the league in a few weeks, and the Canadian teams staying at seven, seven years from now that would mean 226 Canadian entrants out of 1,013 entrants total since 1993, meaning that 7.8 Cups total should have been won by a Canadian entrant.

What this means is that the Canadian franchises could combine to win the next seven straight Stanley Cups in a row and they'd STILL be below average.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Canadians are a risk-averse people compared to Americans – an old and notorious observation. If you look at the Canadians who are rich enough to own NHL teams, most of them got rich by building up oligopolies in mature markets – which is a way of reducing risk at the expense of the consumer. Equally rich Americans often get rich by inventing things and developing new markets – which requires taking risks, and big ones.

Canadian owners are obsessed with not losing, to the point of hardly caring whether they actually win. They are scared to death of doing proper rebuilds because it involves short-term losses without a guarantee of long-term gains. American owners are much more inclined to roll the dice. They often crap out, but they recognize that you will never win if you don't play.

I agree with this, but I also think that fanbases aren't as patient as they think either. Players are constantly pushed out of Canadian markets prematurely for shiny new toys with names people recognize from other markets.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It’s allowed but the question is should it?

And yeah, they are not winning by accident. They are top at drafting and the Flames problems are not just drafting. Treliving has done a pretty good job….at messing up.

Even if it is not allowed, Tampa is doing what it takes to win. So in that respect being over the cap is irrelevant. They are doing whatever it takes to get to the top and making it a reality. There was a time when Badger bob used to find loopholes like pulling goalies to use as a time out. He came up with a 7 point plan, created lines to target the other teams big stars "see Neil Sheehy vs Gretzky". Everyone thought those oilers were unstoppable but the Flames built a team to defeat them. They had a plan, they executed, it and built some great powerhouse teams.

The current Flames have to get with the game do whatever it takes to win and stop calling things a process. I remember Cliff Fletcher talking about trading 3 players for 1 to get a good player. I am not suggesting we do that, but the Flames need to be more creative stack the team think long term.

Organization has to be better, more shrewd, do whatever it takes, instead of talking like we are competing with 30 other teams.

Sheehy vs Gretzky
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-toth-butcher/

Tampa deserves some credit they doing whatever they have to.